At the moment I’m talking with editor Andy Jurgensen, editor of Paul Thomas Anderson’s Licorice Pizza.
Andy’s work on the movie has garnered him BAFTA and ACE Eddie nominations for Greatest Modifying. Andy has been a part of Anderson’s submit group on Inherent Vice, on which he served as Assistant Editor and on Phantom Thread, on which he labored as Affiliate Editor.
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HULLFISH: Thanks for becoming a member of me. You will have had a protracted relationship with Paul [Thomas Anderson], and I interviewed Dylan Tichenor for Phantom Thread. Inform me about you transferring your method into the interior circle and up the ladder within the group.
JURGENSEN: Nicely, I began working with Paul on Inherent Vice in 2014 as an assistant editor, and I had an amazing expertise with Leslie [Jones], who I’d labored with earlier than. Paul additionally does these aspect initiatives from to time—music movies or issues for Jonny [Greenwood]—and he simply began calling me to assist him out. So, that began our relationship.
Then, Phantom Thread was only a completely different animal as a result of we went to London for that film, and since we do every thing on movie and we do movie dailies, it’s laborious to try this type of factor out of the country. In LA, we’ve got the bubble of being near FotoKem and simply having every thing right here.
I feel he’s simply slowly welcomed me into the circle and trusts me now. A whole lot of the folks that work with him have labored with him for a very long time. We all know his sensibilities. The best way he makes films is so distinctive, so I feel that’s a part of it.
HULLFISH: I’m certain it’s great to be trusted. You need to know that you just belief the editor and that the editor has obtained your again. I noticed that you just did some Haim music movies with Paul too.
JURGENSEN: Yeah, we’ve performed a bunch of Haim movies. That’s how he obtained to know that household is thru doing music movies, and I’ve just about lower all of these. So, perhaps that was a part of it too. I’ve been a part of the Haim course of. Now, onto this film, perhaps he wished to simply proceed with that.
HULLFISH: You additionally talked about the 35mm movie facet. You’re a comparatively younger man and I haven’t even labored on movie myself and I’m in my late fifties. The place do you even discover an assistant that’s able to working in 35mm movie and all of what that entails?
JURGENSEN: We’re nonetheless reducing digitally clearly, however through the shoot, we’re watching movie dailies, so we do must prep that. Then, as soon as we get to a sure level, we do conform workprint. And after we lock, we make lists and lower unfavourable for the photochemical model of the film.
We’ve got two assistants. Jay Trautman was our first assistant and was nice. I needed to discover somebody that was actually on it and educate him every thing that I had discovered previously two films. Even simply from Inherent Vice to now, so many issues have gone away so far as movie tools that we used to have the ability to use that isn’t made anymore or that’s damaged or out of date.
Our movie assistant is Invoice Fletcher, who’s really performed lots and has labored on Tarantino’s films and Chris Nolan’s. So he rotates round.
HULLFISH: Rotates across the three administrators who shoot on movie [laughs].
JURGENSEN: He does, actually. He’s superb. We even have an unbelievable submit supervisor, Erica Frauman. So, that was our group.
HULLFISH: What a unique method to work with the 35mm movie dailies. That’s fascinating to listen to about.
JURGENSEN: I really feel fairly fortunate to be straddling these two methods of filmmaking. It’s so enjoyable. Sure, it may be annoying at occasions as a result of there are all these further parts that we’ve got to make, but it surely’s additionally so particular being on this outdated photochemical model of filmmaking.
Clearly, I do different films too, so it’s fascinating how Paul’s course of has influenced how I method these initiatives. It’s a novel expertise.
HULLFISH: Speak to me concerning the distinction between reducing a movie that’s solely digital—or no less than edited solely digital—after which how screening dailies on movie as a bunch adjustments the way in which you watch dailies.
JURGENSEN: It’s invaluable. It’s among the finest issues that Paul does. That’s one factor that he retains alive from the outdated days, and he’s been doing it from the start.
On Phantom Thread as a result of we had this situation of being in London, we couldn’t watch movie each single day and needed to accept getting selects each week. However he would nonetheless watch dailies each night time with the dailies colorist. We’d go over to Technicolor and watch it digitally.
Right here, it’s the proper situation as a result of we’ve got a spot the place we work with a digital projector, movie projector, and the Avid. It type of is like mission management.
This movie was all shot in LA, which was nice as a result of we may collect collectively at the start or the tip of the shoot day in our area, have a drink, and simply watch dailies from the day earlier than.
Normally, we get the movie first even earlier than we’re getting it digitally as a result of that’s simply the way in which that every thing will get processed with the scanning. The pipeline is so distinctive. So, the primary time we’re seeing it’s on print.
We will simply choose so many issues when watching it huge on movie. Not solely the efficiency, however the lighting, and the lenses and focus.
Paul’s sporting so many hats. He’s the author, the producer, the director, and a co-cinematographer, so there’s lots in his head. When he’s watching dailies, he’s analyzing so many alternative parts.
For dailies, we can have slightly group of individuals—the digicam crew and another key members—and we are able to simply see how issues play and what will get laughs. I’ll take notes and we’ve often discovered quite a lot of our favourite takes.
I’ll have an enormous binder on the finish that I take advantage of to assist construct the film later. Truthfully, simply being there within the room is the very best factor.
Now that I’ve been round for therefore lengthy with him, I can simply take a look at him and see when he’s liking one thing or when he’s not. It’s simply that nonverbal communication, physique language, or generally we are able to simply take a look at one another and nonverbally nod to say, “Okay, that’s an ideal second.”
Generally he’ll resolve he’s going to reshoot one thing and we’ll have a dialogue asking, “Is that this working?” Or, “I don’t like how the digicam’s transferring right here. I don’t like how the lighting is.” It’s constructed into the schedule that there’s going to be stuff that will get reshot.
After all some administrators do watch dailies on PIX, however due to all of the stuff that’s getting shot with a number of cameras, generally there aren’t sufficient hours within the day to look at all of the dailies and actually know what you bought. So, with him, he simply makes it a precedence to put aside time to look at dailies, and by the tip of the shoot, we all know we’ve got the film.
HULLFISH: I feel how invaluable it’s to have the ability to watch the dailies with a bunch and the director particularly to have the ability to be aware of that non-verbal stuff of slightly sigh, impatience, or an enormous smile.
I did one film the place each Saturday we prepped choose dailies and we watched it as a group, and it was nice to have the ability to sit subsequent to the director and listen to that stuff, as a result of usually we watch the dailies by ourselves. You don’t have any different sense of anyone apart from you.
JURGENSEN: Precisely. I feel it’s nice.
HULLFISH: Once you watch the dailies with this group of individuals, you’re clearly taking notes, in all probability lengthy hand on a chunk of paper, after which you need to return into your NLE and watch the dailies once more. How do you mix these two dailies watching processes?
JURGENSEN: Nicely, to begin with, as we’re watching dailies as a bunch, Paul and I’ve chosen takes that we like and I star these. We’ve no less than performed a few of the work already.
As I’m watching the stuff once more within the Avid, I’ll add markers. I’ll often do a colour for myself—which is stuff that I like—after which I’ll additionally do a unique colour for Paul of issues that he has responded to or issues that I’ve written down that we like.
Then, often you will have your scene bin and there’s every soak up a row for each setup. I’ll simply click on and drag up our favourite takes. I’ll transfer up the very best, take essentially the most, and if there’s a second or third favourite take, I’ll simply transfer it up slightly bit. Generally I’ll put a “***” or, “greatest first half,” or one thing like that within the clip identify.
For me, I’ll at all times have the notes when I’ve a scene up in order that I can take a look at them. But when I simply open up my bin, I can see instantly which of them are my favourite takes. This was our favourite one, and this was our second or third favourite one. Visually it’s simply a lot simpler for me to pinpoint. Then, I can click on on these and see sure moments within the markers.
We don’t do ScriptSync. There was quite a lot of improv within the Jon Peters part, so I did have Jay mark these up with locators, simply in order that we knew when sure traces have been, however we don’t use ScriptSync in any respect.
Actually I’ll simply open up the scene and I’ll see my favourite takes. Then, I’ll often perform a little selects sequence in that bin and pull my favourite issues. Generally, I’ll do a tough lower of the scene and in order that’s how I get to know the footage once more.
HULLFISH: You’re saying that you just’re actually lifting the very best soak up a selected setup a pair millimeters up in a bin. After all, the poor one that’s OCD is considering, “No, it needs to be a straight line.”
JURGENSEN: I do know. I bear in mind working for editors that have been like that. You had to verify it was precisely proper. This simply works for me, and it in all probability will make different individuals loopy, particularly if their screens are a unique dimension.
However it’s this shorthand that I’ve began doing with Paul, even after we do these little music movies after we’re simply watching stuff proper there on the Avid. I can simply transfer stuff up, after which I don’t neglect. If you happen to lose the piece of paper or the written notes, you’ll be able to no less than go to the bin and see, “Okay, nicely, it’s gotta be considered one of these three that we preferred.”
HULLFISH: You’re not the primary editor that I’ve talked to that has mentioned that’s what they do. I’ve talked to a number of who say that they transfer the very best take up slightly bit increased than the opposite ones.
The opposite factor that I might love to listen to you discuss is circled takes. So, we all know on the day of capturing what the director thinks is nice, however fairly often that’s the fallacious factor. The director would possibly see that later and assume, “Oh, that’s not the very best take.” Did that occur?
Had been his on set instincts the identical as his instincts throughout dailies?
JURGENSEN: It’s fascinating how he works on set as a result of he doesn’t actually say, “That’s my favourite take.” We’ve got a script supervisor that we’ve labored with, Jillian Giacomini, for numerous films. She additionally has this shorthand the place she will be able to type of really feel the physique language of whether or not Paul likes a take or not.
Additionally, together with his course of, the performances will change because the scene is getting shot. You possibly can simply watch the footage and you’ll determine that he didn’t like this lens so that they moved to this different lens after which they modified the lighting and Gary began doing this different factor. So, then it type of evolves to those three takes which are good.
Jillian is nice as a result of she’s in a position to write little notes to me and may give me a heads up of what stuff to concentrate to. After all, generally we go to takes from the start for no matter cause down the road, however he has a very good intuition about when issues are working.
It’s not like we’ll simply watch solely the circle takes throughout dailies.
HULLFISH: I wished to play a scene for you, which has lovely, actually candy music. That is the 2 of them strolling house for the primary time, and the rating is nearly Renaissance. I simply like it. I need to play this for you.
JURGENSEN: That was at all times meant to be a oner. Oftentimes, we received’t even do protection on sure scenes as a result of Paul says, “That is going to be a oner and that is what it’s.” So, that part after which the part on the finish after they’re working in the direction of one another has Jonny Greenwood’s rating.
These are the one occasions within the film the place we use rating. Each different time is a needle drop. In order that was by design.
We did have a temp piece that was in that additionally had a harp sound like that. We used that for some time after which in the end we simply despatched the lower to Jonny and he wrote one thing and determined to make use of that theme at the start and the tip. We determined clearly to construct the music for that last sequence. In any other case, it will have simply been too skinny.
HULLFISH: There’s a scene the place he will get arrested. Do you bear in mind the music decisions for that arrest scene?
JURGENSEN: Are you speaking concerning the teenage truthful sequence?
HULLFISH: Sure.
JURGENSEN: That’s Blue Sands by Chico Hamilton Quintet. That’s only a piece that we licensed. We use it all through that complete sequence.
It begins at the start when he’s strolling in and we edited it to hit sure dramatic notes. Then, it slowly eases away when he’s simply sitting there alone within the police station considering, “How did I get into this mess?”
HULLFISH: That was an amazing, impactful scene. It exhibits that she cares about him. There’s nice character constructing in that.
Are there issues that you just use as gold requirements for whether or not a scene stays or goes? I really heard you discuss to Matt Feury concerning the scene the place he says, “I met the lady that I’m going to marry.” It’s a brief little scene and it does offer you that sense that he’s not simply after intercourse. He actually loves her, so it’s an vital scene, however I feel you talked about in some unspecified time in the future that you just lower it out—or no less than thought of reducing it and put it again in.
JURGENSEN: Yeah, there are quite a lot of elements there. The plot isn’t actually that vital to the film. It truly is about this evolving relationship between these two characters and their backwards and forwards. So, you at all times need to serve that function.
Additionally, simply the way in which the film is structured in these episodes, you need to guarantee that sure sections aren’t outweighing others as a result of then it’s going to start out dragging. It’s a stability of what feels proper. For instance, that scene between him and his brother provides one thing to Gary, particularly at the start of the film.
You’re establishing the 2 of them, Gary and Alana, and it’s vital to arrange who they’re as individuals. You need to root for them and also you need to root for Gary. It provides a humanity. It’s only a stability of all these issues.
This film is simply so distinctive. You possibly can’t actually put a label on it. It’s a coming of age story, a romance, and a meandering slice-of-life type of factor with all these loopy characters. It’s a really distinctive piece.
HULLFISH: The fascinating factor to me is in case you ever did lower it out, you wouldn’t essentially discover that it doesn’t work as nicely with out it simply by enjoying the 2 scenes that butt up now since you lower that out. You’d solely really feel later within the film that it was lacking, proper?
JURGENSEN: Proper.
HULLFISH: You have to be watching the entire thing to appreciate, “Now the ending doesn’t really feel proper,” or, “Now this second feels slightly creepy as a substitute of sentimental.”
JURGENSEN: Additionally, take into consideration the prank name scene when he’s sitting there together with his brother after which calls Alana. If we had not likely arrange the brother in any respect, that may have been jarring.
It simply provides a enjoyable aspect having met the child ten minutes earlier as a result of that’s his complete life: him and his brother. Now, there’s this new aspect, Alana, and so now it’s type of a triangle between the three of them. It’s a domino impact.
HULLFISH: There’s one other scene of their first date—which in fact isn’t a date for Alana—the place they go to the Tail o’ the Cock and so they’re sitting within the bar. I feel that held on her for the complete dialog within the bar with out reducing.
JURGENSEN: Yep, it’s a oner.
HULLFISH: However he’s doing a lot of the speaking. Speak to me concerning the function of that. I’m assuming you additionally had protection?
JURGENSEN: Yeah, we did. Generally you simply get these magical takes and reactions all through the film which are simply so good. That’s one of many the explanation why we stayed along with her at the start of the film too. Her reactions when she first meets Gary are simply priceless and it tells you a lot about who she is.
That may’ve been a scene that we really reshot. I feel we shot that a technique after which Paul had the concept that we doubtlessly would possibly keep in as a oner, however we did do protection. That was an instance of a scene that after it obtained reshot we labored out these kinks in order that we may preserve it as a oner.
Generally, if the timing works out excellent, simply staying on a shot the entire time makes you simply really feel that there’s one thing so genuine to the second. You don’t really feel manipulated.
HULLFISH: True. Proper after that oner is a scene with them at dinner. I don’t know in case you’ve ever heard this time period referred to as “dragnetting”—it’s a pejorative time period and also you didn’t do it—but it surely’s mainly while you’re at all times on the one who’s talking.
What I beloved about this scene is that it simply felt proper, such as you have been at all times on the appropriate particular person on the actual second that you just have been on, as a substitute of the one who was speaking. So, I need to play that scene for you after which have you ever discuss us by this.
JURGENSEN: This was an incredible take of Gary that we discovered at the start the place his expressions are simply so excellent and harmless. Clearly, he’s a showman, he’s a toddler actor, and he’s making an attempt to impress her, however there’s type of an innocence to it.
We simply beloved this take. A few of his expressions when he’s placing his palms out doing jazz palms present that he’s simply at all times performing, however he’s additionally containing himself, too.
So, it was an amazing factor to search out this dynamic between his aspect of that efficiency after which her simply being nearly dismissive—though that’s perhaps the fallacious phrase as a result of she is amused by it.
Clearly, she’s type of having fun with the eye. That’s the explanation why she’s right here within the first place. It was simply discovering these nice takes between the 2 of them.
HULLFISH: Do you will have a dialogue with Paul concerning the function of the scene, or do you simply intuit it by yourself? For instance, if the aim of the scene is that she will be able to’t imagine she’s there regardless of herself, and he can’t imagine his luck that he satisfied this lady to go, then does that inform you the place to be?
JURGENSEN: Not likely. It’s humorous, after we have been first doing display screen assessments between the 2 of them, it was this scene, so that they knew this scene rather well. We had already lower the scene utilizing the outdated footage, in order that was an fascinating evolution as a result of the script did change slightly bit, however the model was at all times the identical.
He’s this showman and he or she’s not taunting him however is responding sarcastically, getting extra data, generally slightly impressed however all with this veil of sarcasm till the tip at that second when he says, “I’m by no means going to neglect you,” and that catches her off guard. So, that’s the arc of the scene.
Paul’s model has at all times been to not make issues too cutty. So, the problem is at all times making an attempt to determine the appropriate moments to chop. You need to preserve the very best performances, however he’s fantastic generally simply staying on a personality and listening to one other character over the shoulder, simply watching the one on display screen react. It is probably not essentially the most excellent timing, however he’s okay with that.
HULLFISH: There’s really a bit of this scene the place I felt like that when it’s over her shoulder, however in case you lower to her for that then it turns into too cutty.
JURGENSEN: Sure, precisely.
Additionally, you’ll be able to see that showman factor that he’s doing in that second, even when she’s beginning to discuss. Plus, he does this licking of his lips, which we use all through the film.
He does {that a} bunch, so every time we noticed that, we might generally attempt to preserve that in as a result of it appears like one thing a youngster would do. It’s not so polished.
HULLFISH: So, as a substitute of reducing it out since you assume, “I don’t need to see him lick his lips,” you assume that provides to his character and tells us one thing about it.
JURGENSEN: Completely. One factor that Paul would generally say to me after I’d present him a sequence is, “, it’s too excellent. Make it much less excellent.”
“It’s too excellent. Make it much less excellent.”
These days, we’re so used to every thing being lower so tightly and the rhythm of scenes being so excellent. I’ve actually taken that to coronary heart since you then take the sequence and simply make one thing slightly off, half second off or simply staying on a shot with perhaps slightly bit extra of a niche than there must be, but it surely simply feels extra pure. It feels extra human and it provides one thing.
Even with a few of these musical sequences that we do—that are calculated for sure moments to occur on sure beats of the music—generally we’ll resolve to simply make it slightly off and it’ll nonetheless work. That’s slightly lesson that I’ve discovered from him.
HULLFISH: I feel I’ve talked about this earlier than, however there’s this Japanese time period referred to as “wabi-sabi,” which is the fantastic thing about one thing that’s imperfect.
JURGENSEN: Completely.
Additionally, with issues like digicam bumps and little digicam actions—if one thing’s egregious, in fact, we’ll repair it—however he likes having that little human contact to it. The truth is, perhaps solely two photographs are stabilized on this film—I pulled again and realized it was an excessive amount of.
We wanted to see slightly bit extra of a human contact to it as a result of it was too excellent.
HULLFISH: Earlier than the Tail o’ the Cock scene, he walks to his home with a lunch field. What’s the worth of that—I do know it’s a pejorative time period—shoe leather-based? What’s the worth generally of displaying him going from one place to a different or spending a second simply strolling someplace?
JURGENSEN: That scene units up the neighborhood and that we’re within the Valley, we’re within the suburbs, and that it’s simply your cookie-cutter avenue. You possibly can inform from this little sequence that that is their routine. I’m certain he goes and he picks his brother up every single day and so they go to some restaurant as a result of his mother’s working.
They’ll go eat, he’ll take him house, after which they’ll watch the Dodger recreation. So, it’s establishing their routine.
HULLFISH: Additionally, I imagine there’s a pre-lap in that scene of the audio into the lounge. Are you able to discuss concerning the worth of a pre-lap and what it provides you?
JURGENSEN: It’s simply a good way to hyperlink two issues collectively. The viewers immediately is used to movie language, so after we hear pre-laps like that we immediately notice, “Okay, we’re going to be transferring ahead in time.” So it’s a method to time bounce, basically. Normally—however not at all times—that’s a method that editors try this.
The Dodger recreation was one thing we needed to put in. There are all these little particulars all through—all these little radio issues, songs, issues within the background, issues on the TV. We tried to pepper these in as a lot as attainable simply so as to add to the authenticity of the time interval as a result of it’s such a nostalgic film.
It’s not solely recreating this time and place of the San Fernando valley but additionally about being a child throughout that point.
This film couldn’t occur these days with cell telephones and textual content messages. Are you able to think about? Within the prank name scene, they might know precisely who’s calling. They’d be texting, “The place are you?” as a substitute of working round looking for one another.
So, you’re capturing this time interval that we’re by no means going to get again. We’re by no means going to have that anymore.
HULLFISH: I simply noticed a tweet from anyone who mentioned, “I simply discovered immediately that there was a cellphone quantity that you would name and it will inform you what time it was,” and that began this complete factor about, “Do you know that you would press a collection of buttons and name again the one who simply referred to as you?”
Which is what she does, proper? She should’ve pressed *69 or one thing that may name again.
JURGENSEN: Perhaps, or they in all probability knew one another’s numbers.
HULLFISH: You’d must ask Paul whether or not he thinks she simply pressed a name again button.
JURGENSEN: I don’t assume it was round again then, so I feel she perhaps sensed, “It’s not Lance on the cellphone, so this have to be Gary.”
HULLFISH: Precisely.
There’s one other nice lower that I really like—once more, it’s movie language and movie grammar—the place it’s the smash lower that occurs after the mother says, “You’re not going to have the ability to go to New York since you don’t have a chaperone.” Increase. Lower to him on an airplane.
Was there something between these scenes, or was that scripted to chop from the place she says that to the airplane?
JURGENSEN: That was scripted like that. We at all times have been going to make use of a music in that second. That basically launches the entire story. The primary reel is simply establishing the 2 of them and their dynamics.
That’s really the start of reel two that launches us into their journey as soon as they’re on the aircraft. Then, we’re going quick from scene to scene and we simply preserve transferring.
HULLFISH: I really like that lower. One of many issues that I had a query about was a scene with a girl within the waterbed when he first will get to see what a waterbed is. These photographs of her are actually shut.
Speak to me concerning the selection of that huge close-up of her, what it obtained you, and why you or Paul felt like that’s the shot you wished to be on?
JURGENSEN: I feel that was only a resolution that was made on set. There’s a type of motif all through the film of closeups and we use it lots. We didn’t have decisions.
Gary type of will get entranced by her and lured into the enterprise, so I feel it was simply getting this connection between her—Brenda’s her identify—between Brenda and Gary. The digicam tracks alongside her as she’s him in closeup. That was a directorial selection.
HULLFISH: You don’t notice it when he first sees the waterbed, however then in fact that turns into an enormous a part of the film, so having a close-up tells you the significance of one thing, I feel.
I need to discuss intercutting. There’s a sequence with Alanna working at night time, looking for Gary and it flashbacks to different scenes of her working.
Are you able to discuss making an attempt to tweak these moments to determine when precisely to chop to these flashbacks and when to chop again to reside motion?
JURGENSEN: In our preliminary lower, that was not in there. It was simply working backwards and forwards. Then, we had this concept of reducing again to some earlier moments within the film as form of an intercut. So, I wished to verify we did one the place she was working to him after the teenage truthful.
Then, his aspect is when he’s working to her after she’s fallen off the again of the bike. These are the 2 moments that we use within the flashbacks, but it surely was additionally sound, too.
As soon as we obtained that in and we realized that this really heightens the emotion, I began taking sound from completely different scenes and peppering these in as nicely.
Once we first begin reducing backwards and forwards between Gary and Alana throughout that last working sequence, you’re listening to children from the teenage truthful, you’re listening to radio from one other portion of the film, then we have been listening to the bike. It was a mixture of utilizing footage flashbacks but additionally sounds.
HULLFISH: I didn’t notice that. I like it. I’m certain I used to be conscious of it perhaps psychologically.
JURGENSEN: Hopefully that’s it. Hopefully, you’re simply listening to slightly little bit of this radio stuff and remembering earlier components of the film.
HULLFISH: I noticed that Paul mentioned that Quick Occasions at Ridgemont Excessive and American Graffiti have been main influences. Is that one thing he requested you to look at?
JURGENSEN: We watched American Graffiti. We had a print of it. It was so ingrained. We have been speaking about it on a regular basis. Even the titles at the start—that inexperienced font that we use all through— is impressed by the primary title in American Graffiti of the Lucasfilm font. So, that was our little throwback to that.
Even the cherry bomb at the start of the film is a throwback to the cherry bomb in American Graffiti. Once more, it’s not like we’re making an attempt to repeat that film and it’s not likely the identical type of film, but it surely’s simply the essence of it. It’s like Paul’s model of American Graffiti in a method.
HULLFISH: It’s extra like American Graffiti was George Lucas’s life that he became a film, and Licorice Pizza is Paul Thomas Anderson’s model of rising up, coming of age.
JURGENSEN: Positively.
HULLFISH: Additionally, I’m assuming a few of the needle drops have been within the script. Speak to me about you constructing a playlist in all probability from Paul, appropriate?
JURGENSEN: Yeah. He’s so in tune with music. He at all times has been. So, he was selecting songs as he was writing the script and there have been quite a lot of issues within the script that notated sure songs.
The method is that he performs quite a lot of music throughout dailies, in order that’s a method wherein we are able to whittle down a playlist. Or some songs which are going to doubtlessly be in a sequence he’ll whittle down by saying, “These are perhaps the favorites.”
I don’t present him an enormous meeting of the film. That’s not how we work. We do the dailies, I take the notes, and I’ve my very own strategy of going by the digital dailies once more and making selects.
Generally, I’ll perform a little tough lower, however he doesn’t need to simply watch a four-hour model of the film the place I’ve simply put all these songs in. That’s simply not his course of. I can have it on the aspect, however he doesn’t need to see that. He needs to construct it with me.
So, that’s how we do it. Generally we’re simply roughing in photographs after which I’ll return and do protection, however I construct the roadmap of the film with him. A whole lot of the time that additionally contains placing songs in, and naturally we’ll change stuff up, however that’s how we do it.
HULLFISH: Does he say, “I feel this could be music selection for this second,” however then there’s additionally only a huge playlist which you can then dive into?
JURGENSEN: Completely.
We simply strive stuff. That’s what’s so nice. You possibly can have completely different tracks. The truth is, the Stumblin’ In observe—the second you have been speaking about for the aircraft—wasn’t really interval correct. We tried a bunch of songs, and generally a music simply feels proper. It’s simply the proper factor and we had to make use of it.
Different spots like Life on Mars was in there from the start and we by no means modified that. Additionally, Let Me Roll It due to the way in which that Paul timed the choreography with them laying on the mattress, trying over, and their pinkies touching.
It was not like we made it to be a music video, however there have been sure moments of the music that we wished to intensify with these pictures.
HULLFISH: Did you additionally undergo by yourself and discover your individual tracks and add them in? Or did you simply determine that Paul’s have been excellent and also you’re going to go along with that?
“I don’t know if it will be a sensible concept to say, ‘By the way in which, I simply modified all of the music cues.’”
JURGENSEN: I don’t know if it will be a sensible concept to say, “By the way in which, I simply modified all of the music cues.” I don’t learn about that. However I’d discuss to him and say, “I don’t know if that is working. What else may we discover?” It’s only a dialogue.
HULLFISH: You mentioned that there are two locations the place there’s rating. Had been there different locations the place you felt there must be rating and you probably did temp rating or no?
JURGENSEN: Nope. By no means.
It was at all times the thought to simply do rating at the start and finish. You can say, “Oh, nicely why didn’t you do rating through the truck sequence?” and perhaps different administrators would have performed that, however we thought it labored so nicely not having music there. The film is nearly wall-to-wall music, and when you hit that Jon Peter’s part, it’s dry for about quarter-hour.
It’s solely the truck sounds that you just’re listening to. You’re listening to some distant songs enjoying on the fuel station or no matter, however that’s it. So, it’s distinction.
HULLFISH: Generally you simply must open it as much as that, proper? It makes it stand out as a result of there’s no music when there’s a lot music in the remainder of the film.
JURGENSEN: Yeah, I feel it’s nearly extra tense. I feel it performs higher by simply listening to the neighborhood sounds and the truck sounds, particularly when it’s going backwards. You’re extra in it.
HULLFISH: Completely, and it’s a Seventies-sounding truck. The sounds are fascinating by themselves and also you don’t need to conflict or have them be overrun by music.
JURGENSEN: Completely.
The sound guys have been nice. We had quite a lot of good things that they recorded on set, however particularly when it’s going backwards, they put this further sound of a rollercoaster when it goes backwards. Then, it stops and we see that profile shot of Alana and Gary and the truck begins transferring ahead. If you happen to hearken to that, it’s a curler coaster beginning to go up.
HULLFISH: That’s implausible.
JURGENSEN: It simply provides such a cool little aspect, particularly then on the very finish with the additional rattling, it makes {that a} very dynamic second.
HULLFISH: To wrap issues up since we’re on sound, I’ve usually needed to battle with administrators to get me into the sound combine. Speak to me concerning the significance of you being within the combine to say, “Oh my gosh, that’s an amazing concept,” or, “No, the sound that I put in has a sure character and we want that,” or, “I’m lacking a sound that you just took out.”
Why ought to an editor be in a sound combine?
JURGENSEN: Particularly for sound within the Avid tracks, you generally actually must do lots to make issues work, whether or not you’re pulling sounds from different takes or completely different dialogue. You actually know the place the our bodies are buried, so to talk.
Issues simply generally get misplaced or sound editors will eliminate sure sounds considering, “That doesn’t matter,” when it actually does.
“Issues simply generally get misplaced or generally individuals say, ‘That doesn’t matter,’ when it actually does.”
Even within the first date scene, you’ll be able to hear all this clanging of silverware and stuff and a few of that was within the tracks. We don’t need to clear all that up.
Paul likes to maintain that pure sound as a result of if it’s too clear, once more, it simply doesn’t really feel genuine. That’s often what we’re doing. The sound guys that we work with are nice and so they now know Paul’s sensibility. He’s often saying, ” It’s too clear. Put again a few of that air.”
So, we’re often dirtying it up extra. We barely do ADR both. I feel there’s just one ADR line on this film as a result of he simply doesn’t like the way it sounds. We simply attempt to make it work with out. In Phantom Thread there’s zero.
HULLFISH: Wow.
JURGENSEN: We get actually good sound recordists, however we additionally attempt to preserve the authenticity. Even when it’s simply not essentially the most excellent sound.
HULLFISH: That’s fascinating.
I might assume that so that you can know that type of factor about your director would additionally assist you to select even which microphone to decide on in a manufacturing observe.
Generally I attempt to keep away from the lavaliers, though generally they’re cleaner, as a result of the increase simply sounds extra actual or there’s extra air to it, such as you mentioned. There’s extra life to that increase.
JURGENSEN: Completely.
The lav often has that muffled sound. Clearly, the sound group could make the lav sound good after they’re doing the combination, however personally, I agree. I feel that the increase sounds higher.
However everybody is aware of that Paul needs to attempt to be as genuine as attainable, so which means barely doing visible results, not doing ADR, not doing quite a lot of home windows.
As a result of we’re reducing unfavourable, which means you’re restricted in how one can manipulate the picture. You possibly can’t do home windows while you’re doing a photochemical end.
HULLFISH: Not doing home windows means Resolve energy home windows in colour correction. Not making one a part of this scene look darker or brighter than one other half.
JURGENSEN: Precisely. You possibly can’t try this while you’re doing photochemical. The whole lot is the outdated method of doing it. So, everybody’s conscious of that: the digicam operator, focus puller, and so forth. Everybody’s obtained to be on it.
So far as sound goes, they’ll put little mics in crops or completely different locations across the set to attempt to seize it as a result of everybody is aware of we don’t need to do ADR later.
For all of the working, Lisa Pinero, who was the manufacturing sound mixer, needed to guarantee that we may seize the sound with all of the working and never get the scuffs that you’d get.
HULLFISH: So that they invented a bicycle with an enormous increase on it?
JURGENSEN: [Laughs] Really, for considered one of our assessments we had the digicam on a souped up golf cart type of factor following together with them with the increase. I don’t assume that actually labored that nicely, however they figured it out.
HULLFISH: That’s nice. Thanks a lot for becoming a member of me. This was a very fascinating dialog and I actually recognize you chatting with us about this.
JURGENSEN: Thanks, Steve.
