For Art of the Cut episode 104, we’re talking with editors Rosanne Tan, ACE, and Todd Desrosiers about selecting up the defend from the place it was left on the finish of Avengers: Endgame and taking up the edit for Marvel’s restricted sequence, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
In addition to slicing the newest addition to Marvel’s ever-expanding universe, Rosanne has edited sequence reminiscent of Mr. Robotic, NOS4A2, Seven Seconds, Homecoming, and Time after Time. And Todd brings a wealth of expertise from sequence like Tales from the Loop, Legion, NOS4A2, The Umbrella Academy, and Fear the Walking Dead.
So we sat down with them to seek out out what it’s like to assist hold the Marvel momentum shifting.
Try the Artwork of the Lower podcast to listen to this interview, and keep updated on all the newest episodes.
HULLFISH: Did you two work on NOS4A2 collectively? Or have been you each on at separate instances?
TAN: It was kind of separate as a result of Todd did the pilot, the primary episode, and I got here on board for episodes seven and eight. We have been there on the identical time, however he was leaving and I used to be simply beginning dailies. Then, we labored collectively a very long time in the past on The Following, and I used to be an assistant editor and he was an editor. I didn’t help him, however we have been on the identical staff.
DESROSIERS: That’s the way-back machine. That’s proper.
HULLFISH: Does that familiarity assist? Have you learnt how any person thought to provide you a name for this mission?
DESROSIERS: For me, the familiarity undoubtedly helps. For those who’re ever on a present and also you assume, “Oh nice, I get to work with them once more,” that’s superior as a result of there’s already a lot widespread floor and also you already fought some battles or fought technical issues, so that you’ve already been there and you already know one another and there’s a shorthand, which is actually good.
However this one, approaching The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was via NOS4A2 as a result of Kari Skogland directed the pilot episode, and that’s what I had achieved together with her there. She ended up recommending me over to the nice individuals at Marvel, and so I had a gathering with all people, Victoria [Alonso], Nate [Moore], and Zoie [Nagelhout]. I feel the mixture of all these issues however primarily having working relationship with Kari was an enormous assist so far as getting on Falcon.
HULLFISH: Do you assume that was it for you, Rosanne?
TAN: No, mine was a bit completely different. I really didn’t work with Kari [on NOS4A2] as a result of I used to be episode seven and eight. She solely directed one and two, and I labored with the showrunner, Jami O’Brien. Kari requested Jami for suggestions as a result of she was compiling a bunch of editors collectively, Jami O’Brien really useful me. So, I’m very grateful for Jami’s advice. Then, I received the interview and I assume the remaining is historical past.
HULLFISH: Good. You guys additionally work with Kelley Dixon, ACE?
DESROSIERS: Appropriate. I had identified Kelley via individuals, however we had by no means labored collectively till this. Some individuals I do know had labored together with her, however we by no means actually had an opportunity to fulfill.
TAN: I might see her at occasions. I labored on a few AMC initiatives even after I was an assistant after which as an editor, and I might hear about her identify via a buddy of mine, Skip Macdonald, ACE, and then you definitely see one another at ACE occasions or locations like that, after which lastly we started working collectively on Falcon.
HULLFISH: I’ve talked to Kelley a few instances and that’s a kind of issues that she talked about to me is simply that means to introduce individuals and attempt to have it’s a case of claiming, “Oh, let’s speak to Kelley’s buddy, Rosanne.” It’s good which you can go to an occasion like that, meet any person, and have any person that you already know introduce you to different individuals. Do you are feeling like that’s loads of the way in which connections occur?
TAN: I really feel this business is all about individuals. For instance, my assistant previous to my present assistant, Caroline Wang, I met via one other editor-assistant that I met years in the past, after which any person really useful him. Then, for Caroline Wang, I really met her at a e book signing for an ACE internship trainer, Lori Coleman; it was her e book signing after which Caroline Wang was there. Then, years later, we related after which she was in one other group that I used to be in. So, generally I feel it’s undoubtedly who you meet at completely different occasions and who you get really useful. It’s undoubtedly about individuals.
DESROSIERS: Yeah, it’s such a word-of-mouth business. You’re solely nearly as good as your model, if you wish to go that route. I simply received a name just lately that stated, “Hey, we’re doing a pilot. Are you out there?” I stated, “Ah, I’m already on one thing. I can’t, however for those who want me to, I’ll go searching and ask.” Then, who am I going to suggest for that pilot? I don’t need it to be somebody that I don’t assume can do it or who I don’t actually know.
So, you’re solely nearly as good as your final job, I assume, but additionally when it comes to being particular person and being succesful, that goes such a great distance. What I imply by your model is that you’ve to have the ability to be counted on in stress conditions when you get to the extent of a Marvel Studio present or one thing. I received my first actual massive shot at something solely due to a word-of-mouth to any person else they usually trusted that I used to be going to do the job nicely. So, it’s like a pay-it-forward.
TAN: Yeah, you simply by no means know. For instance, how I received into the Kevin Williamson camp as an assistant editor then editor, it was via word-of-mouth, after which I interviewed with a separate group of people that stated, ” Your schedule isn’t working with us, however we’re going to suggest you to this staff.” So, then I really was interviewing for The Vampire Diaries to fill in. With my schedule, I used to be solely restricted with this month after which they stated, “Really The Following wants any person.” Then, it grew to become the place to be. You simply by no means know.
HULLFISH: Is there a mode of enhancing from Marvel? Or if somebody new have been to come back onto the present, would you say, “We don’t like pre-laps,” or one thing? I do know many reveals have both the showrunner or another person who likes or dislikes sure issues. Is there something like that with Marvel?
DESROSIERS: It’s humorous, I might usually say sure, however then WandaVision got here out and rewrote what our little present is perhaps, and it does such a tremendous job with that. However to reply your query, I don’t assume so. They gained’t ever put these blinders on you, they don’t need that. However they could say, “That’s actually nice, however let’s steer it again right here,” or one thing like that as a result of I really feel like there’s a Marvel expertise.
I’m coming at it from: I’ve an 11-year-old now, however early on he cherished Marvel motion pictures, we’d watch them collectively as a father/son ceremony of passage. He’s an enormous Black Panther fan. I used to be approaching it like that. I’m desirous to create what I, as a fan, would need to see and what I’m used to, and there’s a canon of all these motion pictures that got here earlier than you that you simply need to honor, particularly for those who’re coping with the Captain America side and storyline. That was actually my method to it.
For The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, I’d Watch Captain America: The Winter Soldier religiously generally simply to get reinspired. Principally, that might assist get me into the proper mindset for what the Bucky side is but additionally the Captain America side; and the movie grammar, if you wish to use that time period, for what Marvel would possibly count on. Once more, they weren’t saying, “Oh no, you may’t do any of that. No pre-laps or no this or no that.” I feel they need you to attempt it and go exterior the field, however on the finish of the day, you’re nonetheless creating one thing that matches inside their worldview.
HULLFISH: Did you discover a movie grammar that you simply thought was one thing that you might observe?
DESROSIERS: Yeah, I assume it could be extra of a classical fashion for this. I feel if you wish to discuss the way it was all imagined to occur and unfold, Falcon was imagined to be the primary one out on Disney+. Nothing was ever spoken, that is simply one thing I internalized and considered is: “That is the very first one for Marvel popping out for Disney+. It’s actually necessary.”
TAN: A lot of stress.
DESROSIERS: Tons of stress. So, we’re going to do higher than your expectations, however we’re going to fulfill your expectations for what that is imagined to be. So, my slicing fashion was just like what Jeff had already laid out.
HULLFISH: Jeff Ford?
DESROSIERS: Yeah, the Maestro.
TAN: The Maestro, certainly. For me, we have been by no means advised, “Oh, don’t do that, don’t try this.” Additionally, I really feel prefer it’s a really filmmaker foundation sort of state of affairs per mission. It additionally is dependent upon what Kari is liking, after which after we present it to Nate Moore and Zoie, who have been our govt producers, and likewise when Kevin [Feige], Louis [D’esposito], and Victoria [Alonso] see it, it simply relies upon. So, we have been simply principally slicing from what we all know. Additionally, I used to be impressed by the flicks and since proper earlier than I began I used to be watching it down chronologically making an attempt to observe the story. Earlier than I interviewed, I really was an enormous fan of Captain America and Ant-Man, so I solely watched these two.
Coming into the job, I simply principally began from the start. I went on Google and adopted the followers who stated, “That is how you need to go so as simply to know the story.” Then, I assume from watching all that I believed, “Okay, I have to do job to honor these motion pictures.” Like Todd stated, at first we have been advised that it could be the primary mission [on Disney+], so it was loads of stress and we needed to do job.
Then, when the dailies are available in, you assume, “Okay, right here we go,” and it’s a lot enjoyable whenever you get the dailies. You assume, “I can’t imagine I’m right here.” Additionally, when the large motion sequences are available in you concentrate on the flicks you watch and also you need to honor that, and also you need to honor what Jeff Ford did in Captain America: The Winter Soldier many, a few years in the past. I feel it’s a problem, and it’s loads of enjoyable.
DESROSIERS: There’s additionally Kevin and Victoria, they usually’re kind of tastemakers with their sensibilities too, however it at all times comes from a logic level. There’s one scene in episode 5 the place Walker was on trial, and there’s an early model of doing a little overlapping cuts of him arguing again at them. It made it extra psychological, however what ended up occurring was they weren’t saying, “Oh, that fashion doesn’t work for Marvel.” It was extra like, “Nicely, we don’t need it to confuse and make individuals assume that the serum is inflicting him to be psychological right here.” So, these reasonings for it could then push you again. They nonetheless appreciated it, however we might reign it again in and simply have it’s about his anger and a bit bit completely different than presumably a serum. So, it’s all from that foundation.
Kari was additionally undoubtedly actually making an attempt to experiment right here and there the place she will as a result of that’s how she’s made her identify. The unique pilot for NOS4A2 was crazily experimental and funky, however on the finish of the day, I feel they needed to make it’s a bit bit extra like Stephen King, Nineteen Eighties, to honor that type of really feel and vibe, and that’s what it ended up turning into. So, we had felt round with it too.
HULLFISH: Does it aid you in any respect to have that type of a canon as an editor, or is it troublesome? As a result of loads of instances, we’re telling a narrative from scratch. There’s no backstory that’s written down, the followers don’t perceive the again story, however with this you’ve actually received a fan base that is aware of the canon. What sort of stress does that placed on you?
TAN: I feel it’s loads of stress since that is one thing that many tens of millions of followers have watched, particularly with the place we left off at Avengers: Endgame. There’s an enormous hype behind it. I feel additionally, Falcon and Winter Soldier are such beloved characters. They’ve had that buddy-buddy relationship, so it was cool to see that and make it possible for we honor their buddy-buddy moments. Additionally, we’re telling a brand new story too: principally the place Sam Wilson is coming from. So, that’s a complete new aspect that followers could haven’t seen. They noticed a bit little bit of it in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, however now it’s exploring completely different areas. Once more, we’re making an attempt various things there. I feel there was loads of stress when it’s one thing that’s so cherished by all of the followers.
Earlier, Todd was saying about Kevin, Louis, and Victoria, they care rather a lot about tales. So, for instance, if one thing doesn’t work out, we’re laying all of it out once more and making an attempt to determine what’s finest for the story. So, if it doesn’t work, it’s by no means going to complete that means. We’re going to rethink after which rework this scene.
DESROSIERS: Yeah, for certain. I feel there may be loads of stress from the fan base and all of the work that got here earlier than, however I feel it’s additionally useful as a result of it at the least helps you hint the steps. You would possibly assume, “Nicely, then this doesn’t really feel like Bucky would react this manner based mostly on who Bucky was,” et cetera. Stuff like that. So, it was a blessing and a curse I feel, however largely a blessing. The curse being you don’t need to mess up.
In my interview, I needed to verify Victoria knew that I didn’t need to be a part of the staff that messed it up as a result of I actually revere it and I feel it’s one thing particular. The standard and the humorousness, the way it doesn’t take itself too severely and but it’s such a well-liked and, at instances, very critical emotional franchise. It’s magical what they’ve been in a position to do, seize, and hold quality-wise going for this a few years. The followers caring that a lot about it’s simply actually a badge of honor for the way good they make these items.
“I feel that’s one of many insane issues that I realized at Marvel is that we’re in a position to do all this.”
HULLFISH: I do know that in earlier Marvel movies there’s a ton of previs, and I wasn’t certain with this sequence whether or not there was loads of previs or not.
TAN: It is dependent upon the completely different episodes, and loads of instances what is available in previs, you see it and you place it within the sequence for now till it is available in, after which it’s shot totally completely different due to the place the actors are standing and completely different circumstances. So, then you definitely’re utilizing the previs as an thought and then you definitely go together with what you’ve, and loads of instances it’s very completely different. It’s actually cool to have that choice to see previs and likewise ask for postvis. I feel that’s one of many insane issues that I realized at Marvel is that we’re in a position to do all this. I assume coming from the dramas I labored on, we didn’t have previs or postvis, and studying the entire VFX factor was principally a complete new factor.
Studying from Jeff Ford, he has the entire workflow down, and I’m so grateful for it as a result of then we realized about after we reduce the scene, we get it prepared, get it to postvis… Earlier than, it was extra like we wait till the top. On Mr. Robotic, we wouldn’t fear about VFX until the top after we locked the episode, whereas right here it’s at all times ongoing. So, you get the postvis staff speaking with you, then you definitely get what you want, and then you definitely put within the sequences, which is such an unimaginable choice to have.
HULLFISH: What do you assume that does to your enhancing, the distinction between, say, the way in which Mr. Robotic labored the place you didn’t see the complete postvis or any type of postvis till the very finish and this the place you bought completely different variations of postvis all through the method?
TAN: I feel it simply helps it. For instance, on Mr. Robotic we didn’t have postvis, we had our assistant editors comping for us, and people are the temps. I don’t assume postvis existed. We actually may have comps. If we didn’t it was extra like, “That is one thing that may get labored on later. It is a very temp split-screen that we’ll do and our VFX vendor will finally make it higher.” Whereas right here you’re really including issues to inform the story, and no matter’s to advance it really simply helps you, I feel.
For instance, I can’t really add a defend. I can undoubtedly have my assistant simply assist me comp or I’ll do a temp comp and put the proper plate into the shot, however that’s all I can do. However having postvis simply enhances it, I feel. It doesn’t sluggish me down or add, it simply helps inform the story and no matter tells the story finest goes to be useful.
DESROSIERS: There’s a steep studying curve whenever you get in for those who’re coming from the place we got here from. I used to be on a sequence that whereas perhaps massive, didn’t have almost the embarrassment of riches that you’ve whenever you’re at Marvel when it comes to the pre and postvis. That was actually useful to have Jeff are available in and tell us the workflow that works finest, particularly due to COVID and all of the shutdowns and all that stuff. Our runway received actually quick in the direction of the top and it was such an enormous airplane. So, he was actually essential to assist us get via that a part of the workflow.
“On the eleventh hour you discover out, ‘This doesn’t work. What can we do?’ and you haven’t any time.”
It appears like for those who have been to not have the postvis, for instance, and also you’re engaged on these massive visible results sequences, like I labored on with The Umbrella Academy, the place on the eleventh hour you discover out, “This doesn’t work. What can we do?” and you haven’t any time. Whereas you’re figuring that stuff out all alongside the way in which, and that’s actually useful. Eric and his staff for visible results and Glenn and Kevin, they have been actually useful and instrumental.
Additionally, The Third Floor, which is the postvis staff that basically helped us. That means, you already know when one thing will not be working, you may work out a greater approach to do it, and you’ve got extra time particularly with gigantic sequences like those on this, whether or not it was in episode one, or the truck struggle, or perhaps a small scene that was actually troublesome which was the defend tossing scene in 5.
HULLFISH: I used to be about to carry that up, that the defend tossing scene needed to have been very troublesome with out postvis.
TAN: It’s like nothing [laughs].
DESROSIERS: Nicely, they have been throwing and catching and they might throw it, then they might hand it, and they might catch it, and that type of interrupts the circulate of the particular scene, however they’re execs at it, in order that was superb. However from the start, it was such a troublesome scene as a result of it was one of many first early scenes I reduce and I believed, “Wow, cool. I’m doing a scene with the defend. That’s superior.”
That’s the purpose although, you don’t need to make it concerning the defend. It’s actually extra about what they’re speaking about, and early on I believed, “Okay, I don’t know which tree it’s hitting or if it’s imagined to hit six timber. Does it even try this? How can we prepare that?”
However the necessary half is: how can we land the story? We’re in episode 5, we’re in the direction of the top now. There’s loads of stuff that’s handed and also you’ve received the 2 guys. The rationale for the present is to have these sorts of conversations, and this one is so essential. So yeah, we had so many alternative visible results conferences of claiming, “The catch doesn’t really feel proper,” or, “You see the way it shifts on his shoulder? Let’s tweak that.” We received all the way down to a granular degree of changes, however on the finish of the day, we’re all targeted on how we make it possible for the defend doesn’t overwhelm the purpose of the scene and their relationship.
TAN: Additionally, you be taught rather a lot about how one can assume and picture when one thing will not be there. I feel one of many earliest scenes that I labored on was the finale episode with the helicopter sequence, so it went via many revisions. I used to be working with Eric Leven and Mike May, the VFX guys, and it’s simply slicing blue screens and imagining. I believed, “I’m lacking this shot,” and he would say, “Ask for it.” And we’d go ask for it with postvis, imagining like an over-the-shoulder from contained in the helicopter wanting via it.
So, something that you simply’re imagining, I simply requested for it, after which principally you’ll simply information them on what you’re searching for after which we’ll put it in, then it’s one thing that we stored engaged on.
That was pre-COVID shutdown. Then we have been at a standstill when that occurred, however we stored engaged on stuff that we did have. So, for instance, the plates from New York got here, so then they have been placing that in. Once more, we had many VFX conferences discussing one thing like, “We need to see the helicopter however with out brightening all the pieces an excessive amount of.” There’s so many conferences like that. It’s as a result of Marvel cares and it’s actually cool to see.
Once more, after I was slicing that sequence, on the time I believed, “That is all blue display. That is new to me.” It’s actually unimaginable to see the way it ended up. It’s simply loads of work went into it, lots of people, many alternative groups have been on it vendor-wise. All of us have been simply continuously engaged on it. I feel that’s the distinction with the initiatives I’ve been on up to now. Right here it’s simply ongoing, sending again, getting postvis, after which on the identical time they’ve turned it over to distributors. Then, they’re engaged on that after which we now have conferences continuously speaking about it and bettering. So, it’s fairly unimaginable.
DESROSIERS: It’s at all times collaborative too, which is actually cool. When you have a sense about it, they’re going to hearken to it despite the fact that you’re up to now in and it is perhaps the eleventh hour. They could say, “Okay, nicely let’s tweak it.” Or perhaps say, “Don’t fear about it. It’s good.” So, it’s actually spectacular, versus saying, “No time, no cash. It’s the means it’s.”
TAN: Nothing like that in any respect. Yeah, and it’s nice to choose Jeff Ford’s mind simply because he’s been eager about that for thus a few years. He may provide you with a simple reply, too. Once more, I realized a lot simply coming from a non-VFX heavy sort world into the VFX world.
HULLFISH: I really like how each of you’re so comfy describing what a studying curve there was. You’re each skilled editors, you’ve each labored on nice reveals earlier than, however there’s nothing unsuitable with saying, “I’ve by no means achieved this earlier than,” proper? You simply need to say, “Hey, I might like to be taught. I’ve by no means needed to do a completely blue display sequence.” Speak to me a bit bit about coming in on a day whenever you don’t know what you’re doing.
DESROSIERS: Nicely, the distinctive factor about that is it’s not a characteristic and it’s not a sequence, it’s one thing within the center. That’s why they introduced us on and Kari needed to carry us on due to their lack of expertise coping with the grind of an episodic. That’s not what they do. However, on the finish of the day, it was like this gigantic characteristic. They didn’t actually change an excessive amount of of how they go about their enterprise. This simply was extra of it. Yeah, it may be overwhelming, however I’ve realized a lot from different editors and listening to different editors. You’ll be able to both faux it until you make it, and generally that’s the proper method, however different instances truthfully it simply saves a lot time to ask, “Wait, what do you imply? What does that time period imply?”
TAN: Simply ask. Yeah, simply ask the questions.
DESROSIERS: It’s by no means a unsuitable query, I feel. It doesn’t serve you too nicely to attempt to faux it an excessive amount of. Individuals can inform and a man like Jeff can inform and Victoria and Kevin and Louis can all inform. They didn’t count on us to…
TAN: …know the VFX-heavy world.
“I need to take jobs the place I’m studying…in any other case, you are feeling prefer it will get boring quick.”
DESROSIERS: Yeah, that was one thing that we’re going to be taught on the bottom, however they’re okay with it. For those who can’t reduce it actually and figuratively, then you definitely’d in all probability discover your means out, however thankfully, that didn’t occur and all people’s there to assist. There’s lots of people there and you may simply ask, “Hey Glenn, inform me about your marker system that you simply guys are utilizing right here as a result of it’s actually in-depth and fairly fascinating.” I’m simply right here to be taught, in any other case you get stale too. So, I need to take jobs the place I’m studying. If it’s not particularly about editorial workflow, then it’s one thing else. In any other case, you are feeling prefer it will get boring quick.
TAN: I feel, in the end, it’s about telling a narrative, and whenever you are available in it’s about what the story is about with the scenes. I feel all of us come from a world the place we’re in a position to inform tales. What’s completely different is the instruments and I’m so glad that they’re not saying, “You should know the VFX heavy stuff.” It’s extra like, “Okay, work with this staff. They’ll information you thru this.” Once more, I feel you simply need to be humble. For instance, I’ll stroll subsequent door to Todd’s room and say, “Hey, have you ever seen this? How do you…” after which the identical factor, I’ll name Eric Leven, our VFX supervisor, and ask him questions on, “Hey, I’m not understanding this.” You’re in a position to try this, and I feel that’s actually nice.
HULLFISH: I really like that. Time and again in Artwork of the Lower I feel it’s been confirmed that the shortage of ego goes to be a useful factor as an editor, whether or not it’s letting the story be the principle factor or whether or not it’s not feeling unhealthy about asking a query that you simply don’t know the reply to, these are all tremendous necessary issues.
Inform me about your method to motion scenes, versus dialogue scenes. There’s loads of nice dialogue, as you stated, it’s the buddy relationship and many actually good conversations that occur, after which a number of nice motion. Do you are taking a special method on a day whenever you’re slicing an motion scene versus a day whenever you’re slicing a dialogue scene?
TAN: For me, I watch all of them, and a few of them have stunt-vis that is available in, so it’s fairly cool to see what that they had in thoughts whenever you take a look at it. Then, whenever you get the dailies a few of it’s comparable and loads of it’s been modified on the day simply due to completely different circumstances that occurred on set. I’ll watch it after which put it away as a result of I don’t need it to be tied to what I’m considering.
Then, I principally simply undergo the dailies, and since I’ve that data in my mind from watching all the flicks, I begin considering, “Okay, I need to do job. I need to honor all these massive photographs and what we will think about.” Rising up, I watched loads of motion pictures with struggle sequences and I’m an enormous fan of Jackie Chan, enormous fan of Jean-Claude Van Damme. I simply love struggle sequences.
“The benefit of our Avid is we now have a reference sequence, a bin that has all the flicks.”
So, I might simply reduce all of them like a brief blueprint, like a draft, after which I’ll return and perhaps assume, “Ugh, I can’t see the face,” after which I’ll return and add the response or add a greater punch. I’d assume, “Why is it so sluggish?” Then I’ll attempt eradicating a body right here after which it goes faster, after which I’ll begin simply going backwards and forwards watching it. I’d notice, “Oh God, I don’t know the place I’m at.” Then, I’ll add a large shot in there. So, it’s studying.
The benefit of our Avid is we now have a reference sequence, a bin that has all the flicks. So, generally you need to simply get impressed, you pull up a scene from Black Panther, otherwise you assume, “How did they try this cool struggle right here in Winter Soldier or Civil Battle?” You simply watch and also you assume, “Oh, that is actually cool,” however you won’t essentially have that. So, then you definitely simply rethink it. That’s how I assault motion sequences.
Then, I’ll have my assistant, Caroline, put the sound work in. Generally sound can simply actually amp up the struggle, the punches, and kicks, and then you definitely’re not having an issue with it anymore. You simply need to stroll away after which come again to it a bit later. So far as conversational sequences, I’ll simply reduce the place the very best performances are. I’ll watch via all the pieces, go away, come again, and simply hold engaged on it that means.
DESROSIERS: That’s an awesome reply. I feel, so far as motion scenes go, simply so as to add to it, as I used to be saying comparable issues, there’s a starting, center, and finish for an motion sequence too. It has its personal kind of construction. Additionally, perhaps there’s a key second in there that you simply need to say, “Okay, this has to occur. I have to have this. So let me construct that first after which I may match again from that.” Then, yeah, going again over and revising and revising and by no means actually considering you’ve the best factor, as a result of I’ll return and take a look at it the subsequent day and say, “What was I considering?”
I used to be fortunate to have, at one level, two nice assistants, Brian Beale and Matt Barton, come on to assist all of us, and they’re nice editors in their very own proper. So, I stated, “Hey guys, inform me what you assume.” Now we have such a shorthand, they gained’t say, “Hey, you probably did superior.” They’ll say, “Oh, it’s nice,” however they’ll let me know what they assume their issues are.
And that’s actually good as a result of you may get such tunnel imaginative and prescient and also you get so near it that earlier than you exit wider to Kari or all that stuff, you’ve water examined it your self simply to make it possible for all the pieces’s touchdown that you simply assume is meant to land. Then, simply be open to that opinion and be open to individuals’s recommendations to alter it. I attempt to anchor it with the actually key, necessary beats, after which we’ll work from that in case you have the time, in any other case you say, “Alright, let’s put this factor collectively and ship it out, after which we’ll get notes.”
Then, for the dialogue scenes, a lot of that’s the performances and what you’re given. On this, we had such nice actors, Anthony Mackie particularly there with Sam and Elijah’s scenes that are so emotional. It wasn’t mine, however Bucky ‘s remedy scene with the therapist, or any of these the place it’s actually straight up dialogue but additionally actually difficult emotional issues. You’re actually on the mercy of the performances, and then you definitely simply honor that and attempt to construct off of that as finest you may.
HULLFISH: Is the precise method any completely different? Do you do selects reels for one and never for an additional? Or do you do selects reels for each, or neither?
TAN: I do it for each.
DESROSIERS: Yeah, I do it for dialogue scenes after which motion scenes, relying on the quantity. If there’s an amazing quantity, generally you must do selects simply because there’s an excessive amount of archaeological digging concerned generally. It occurred on the factor I’m on proper now the place I’m considering, “Okay, they’ve a lot footage for this motion sequence. I received to take three days and actually undergo.”As a result of what’s occurring increasingly more with restricted time is you get 4 or 5 cameras.When you have 5 takes, it’s a 5 minute scene with 5 cameras for one take…you do the maths.
“I really want an additional day right here to undergo all of it, and it’ll prevent time downstream. Belief me.”
Then, you’ve a number of takes after which you’ve a number of setups. I had a driving sequence that may’ve been 45 seconds on the finish of the day, however there’s two hours’ price of footage that you must undergo. So you must do selects simply to have the ability to have a body of reference since you’re going to get notes on one thing so massive and sophisticated.
It occurs the place they could say, “Do you’ve selects?” And I’ll say, “I’ve received selects for this a part of it, that we now have, I’ve received selects on the rabbit, I’ve received selects on the lead.” For those who take the time, it saves you time. So, you simply have to just be sure you’ll be given that point, saying, “Hear, you guys shot loads of stuff so I really want an additional day right here to undergo all of it, and it’ll prevent time downstream. Belief me. And also you’ll have a greater sequence.”
TAN: Generally you don’t have time. Generally you’re advised that we need to pull the stage for the subsequent day. So, your dailies are available in—I feel it was for the finale, it was John Walker combating on the road—they usually’re actually dropping time they usually need to compress the sure part. The dailies got here in by 4:00 PM as a result of it was an evening shoot, the dailies processing staff have been processing it, and when the assistants received it they needed to prep it.
By the point I received it, it was about 3:00 PM, and I needed to get it out by nighttime for his or her evening shoot, simply so they might see, “We gained’t want this, this, this…” So, generally it’s simply crazy-town so far as how a lot time you’ve, and also you’re simply doing the very best tough sequence in order that they’ll ship it again to set for Kari to see if they should decide this up or that up. I had a few days of that for the helicopter sequence too. They stated, “We don’t need to shoot it any extra on the stage. Present me a tough sequence of what you’ve.”
DESROSIERS: Yeah, that’s the factor. Or—it’s by no means occurred earlier than for me on another factor—however that they had three days at first of 5, that massive big struggle sequence between Walker and Bucky and Sam, they did it over the course of three days. After day one, they stated, “Hey, we’d like to see, and we all know it’s tough, however we’d like to see one thing as a result of it’s necessary for us to determine so we may do that day.” As quickly because it’s coming in, you’re making an attempt to place it collectively.
“This isn’t the ultimate type. It is a tough sketch. It’s going that can assist you guys out.”
That’s the place the stunt-vis is tremendous necessary as a result of you’ve a primary framework and template that you must meet and you may work out actually rapidly if that isn’t working, however you don’t have time proper now, that you must see one thing, so right here you go. Then, there’s a telephone name or there’s an e-mail saying, “Hey, so right here you go. You will have it.” But it surely’s an understanding of: “This isn’t the ultimate type. It is a tough sketch. It’s going that can assist you guys out on that day.” You don’t have time for selects in that, however hopefully you may double again, and we did. COVID helped give us a while to tug selects collectively.
HULLFISH: For previs, that’s usually a not-too-low-quality 3D. Is stunt-vis the performers in a stunt studio with a crappy digital camera?
TAN: They’ve really received fairly good cameras. Generally they add wings and the defend. You gotta give kudos to that staff. They do unimaginable stunt-vis, and it’s principally months of their planning. Then, they’ll add completely different angles after which they’ll add VFX to it. There’s an editor on their staff that makes up cool stunt-vis. Once we get it, it’s an awesome template, however then once more, when dailies are available in generally it simply adjustments utterly simply due to circumstances. But it surely’s cool to see previs. Previs is all computer-generated stuff. Numerous instances it’s simply fairly unimaginable what they’ll do.
DESROSIERS: Yeah, there’s an artwork to that reduce too in its personal means. For Marvel although, they’ve had 10-plus years of doing it, in order that they’ve constructed that out. I haven’t seen it on another TV reveals, actually. Perhaps a standalone movie or streaming reveals, however they in all probability aren’t as refined.
HULLFISH: The stunt-vis is live-action with actual individuals?
DESROSIERS: It’s stunt actors in a warehouse stunt room with packing containers standing in for vans and crash mats and all that stuff, however there are particular characters. There’s a man with a Captain America t-shirt, really fairly stretchy shirts since they’re all fairly massive dudes and girls. What’s cool is usually you will note a VFX defend fling out, and the man will react ‘trigger the digital camera transfer is necessary. So, they’re making an attempt to assist work out what the pacing for that kind of backwards and forwards is perhaps between the defend ricocheting off a foul man and again to Cap.
It’s fairly refined. It’s actually cool. You may as well see the place it’s not working in your opinion they usually might need achieved the very best that they’ll, and that’s the stuff that will get labored on. But it surely does actually set a pleasant tough template up for you for the large, enormous set items as a result of it’s actually needed whenever you get all the way down to it.
TAN: These are the identical stunt guys which might be going to be on set doing the identical for these characters. So, actually seeing that after which seeing what they’re about to do is fairly unimaginable. They follow for months doing it.
DESROSIERS: Then, they could change stuff up on the day once they get there as a result of Kari would possibly say, “This isn’t working for me on a private degree, so let’s attempt a special tack.” Then, they’ve to simply change it up, or stuff received SNAFU-ed and so we’re in a special location than we’ve deliberate, or who is aware of? There’s a mess of various causes. Generally we are saying, “Okay, that stunt-vis doesn’t exist anymore. So put that away. Let’s determine it out.” But it surely’s spectacular. I used to be grateful for it.
HULLFISH: What sort of schedule are we speaking about with the shoot and with an editor’s reduce and a director’s reduce?
TAN: It’s a bit bizarre on ours due to the shut down. We will’t actually say. I’m so grateful that when the shutdown occurred I used to be nonetheless in Atlanta, after which they stated, “We’re shutting down. We don’t know what’s going to occur.” On the time I believed, “Okay, I’m going to return to LA.” Todd was already in LA. I used to be the one staff nonetheless in Atlanta. Then we discovered dwelling techniques, and it was virtually immediately. We have been one of many first groups doing it, and, once more, I’m so grateful that I get to maintain working.
At the moment we stated, “We’re going to simply superb tune what we now have,” studying it for the primary time ever with a brand new system. I feel on the time we have been doing a digital field and it was a PC base. Then you must be taught your PC instructions, however we have been in a position to do it. It’s fairly unimaginable simply to entry media, though it was a bit slower on the time as a result of they have been figuring issues out, and we had a tech staff on standby. We didn’t know however we hoped to begin manufacturing right now, after which they stated, “We will’t begin again up but, so simply hold superb tuning.”
So we didn’t have a schedule after which abruptly, once they did plan manufacturing beginning again up, it grew to become an insanely small window. That’s why we’re so glad that Jeff Ford got here in and we labored as a whole staff. No matter was problematic, we labored it out and solved it by making an attempt this selection, making an attempt that choice. At the moment, I feel we had a window of when issues have been being delivered.
DESROSIERS: Yeah, so it’s onerous to say. There actually was no conventional editor’s reduce or director’s reduce due to how all the pieces received turned over. It simply speaks to how good Marvel Studios is at rolling with it.
For the unique schedule, we have been imagined to go to Puerto Rico however there have been earthquakes, in order that they couldn’t go there and needed to cease. It’s an enormous military of individuals and equipment and storylines and that was imagined to be six weeks, I feel. So, they stated, “How can we pull the schedule up six weeks? What can we begin taking pictures now?” All people simply banded collectively and figured it out, and that was a foreshadowing for what was going to come back.
Most of my episodes have been virtually shot when the pandemic hit. There have been nonetheless massive chunks lacking, however it wasn’t imagined to be that means. I feel Rosie, you have been imagined to be subsequent up for many of that Puerto Rico stuff, proper?
TAN: Yeah. It was loads of the shipyard stuff, the exteriors, after which loads of six. Then they needed to reshuffle and replan.
DESROSIERS: Then, whereas we had the shutdown we had a bit day without work as a result of the world was making an attempt to determine what’s going to occur subsequent, however, once more, Marvel actually simply stored us within the loop and we didn’t really feel like we have been going to get deserted and we have been nonetheless a part of Marvel.
As soon as they began and stated, “We’re going to go for it,” it was a trial and error course of, however we had the time. We have been lucky. We’re actually one of many luckier teams of individuals to have the ability to hold forging forward with it and take your thoughts off what was occurring on the planet. There was rather a lot occurring on the planet, at dwelling particularly. Then, the schedule reformulated, and as soon as it reformulated then we realized, “Okay, we now have rather a lot to do and the runway is tight,” and that’s when Jeff got here in.
TAN: I feel the finale episode was solely about 30 p.c shot or perhaps 25 p.c. For instance, at one level, they stated, “Construct the sequence with storyboards and previs, or stunt vis, or simply playing cards.” So, we constructed it and realized, “Yeah, this episode is generally not shot.”
DESROSIERS: However then as soon as the inexperienced gentle occurred, they usually stated, “Let’s go to Prague and let’s end taking pictures,” then Prague was having a second wave, so the schedule really received shortened even additional. So, no matter they deliberate on ending up after many months of eager about it and sharpening our pencils and making the very best model of the story, they stated, “Okay, we gotta rush it now as a result of we’ve received to complete earlier than we now have to depart.”
So, there’s loads of troublesome moments that have been placed on the schedule and all people, Rosie’s episode specifically, however we one way or the other managed to make one thing fairly particular.
TAN: It was only a massive, unimaginable staff of a number of superb individuals collaborating. Once more, Marvel won’t ever let something go if that they had a problem with it story-wise. We’re going to maintain remodeling, and that’s factor. You by no means as soon as really feel like, “Oh, that is going to exit subpar,” or something like that. Nope, we’re going to maintain working.
Generally we are saying, “Let’s put our heads collectively. Let’s all attempt a model of this.” That was the nice factor, it was like a brand new format. Jeff was working with that format and I really take pleasure in it. It was about, “How can we mix all of our variations collectively?” It’s fairly cool what comes out of it.
DESROSIERS: That’s the place having the proper individuals, not having an ego, and all that stuff—that was the beginning of this complete dialog—and simply be open to, not the very best thought wins, however all people throws their thought in and if it’s not yours, it’s okay. As a result of the entire level is we’re making the very best present attainable. That was actually essential, and we received actually fortunate with the staff that we had.
HULLFISH: Nice artwork, it’s stated, is understanding when to cease. When have you learnt whenever you’ve labored on a chunk and you’re feeling comfy letting it transfer to the subsequent stage? How do you decide your personal work to find out when adequate is sweet sufficient?
DESROSIERS: I didn’t like that saying, however I feel they’re sensible phrases. They need to pry it away from me. I at all times need to make one other change, or I’ll at all times see one thing that I feel is unsuitable with it, or I feel, “I may’ve achieved this higher.” Perhaps it’s a perfectionist perspective, I’m undecided.
Sooner or later, you run out of time. Or, they’ll say, “Oh, that is nice. Put it within the present.” That occurred a few instances with Jeff, it was nice to listen to. I feel I’d be higher off leaving it as much as different individuals to say, “Sure, that is working good,” as a result of I feel I’m an excessive amount of of a perfectionist.
HULLFISH: So it’s the everyday, “No film is ever completed. It’s simply deserted”?
DESROSIERS: Perhaps, yeah.
TAN: It’s a smooth, smooth lock.
DESROSIERS: Or a latch.
TAN: Oh yeah, a latch. It’s a latch. However I’m the identical means, I’m actually onerous on my stuff. I’ll simply hold working and remodeling till late at evening, ingesting a number of espresso, and I’ll say, “Okay, I have to stroll away as a result of I can’t inform anymore.”Then, my assistant will take a look at it the subsequent morning, and she or he’ll say, “This works.” I’ll say, “Actually?” As a result of I might go down the rabbit gap of making an attempt various things, considering it doesn’t work. I’m considering of alts upon alts, after which generally I’ll present Todd and he’ll say, “It’s superb. What are you speaking about?” You’re your hardest critic, I assume.
DESROSIERS: It’s good to be that, however yeah, you run out of time. It’s taken away from you, deserted. I feel that’s in all probability extra my philosophy.
HULLFISH: What about judging different editors? One of many causes we’re doing this interview is due to the Emmys. How do you take a look at any person else’s work? You know the way onerous enhancing is and all the variables that go into piece. How do you take a look at any person else’s work and decide whether or not it’s award-worthy?
“You really need an award for the enhancing of that, as a result of it was like, ‘Oh, my God. That was troublesome. That was horrible.’”
TAN: I often attempt to watch greater than only one episode, after which I need to see the place that episode is. It’s so onerous since you don’t know the place they arrive from so far as what the dailies are on the day, or what the performances are, or what challenges they’ve. It’s so powerful.
DESROSIERS: I labored on some actually, I’m not going to call them, however actually troublesome reveals and it’s like, “That is so onerous to make one thing mediocre out of this.” You really need an award for the enhancing of that, as a result of it was like, “Oh, my God. That was troublesome. That was horrible.” The dailies have been atrocious, that script is terrible, and one way or the other it’s watchable. Wow.
HULLFISH: That editor deserves an award.
DESROSIERS: Yeah, these guys and girls that try this stuff, tip your cap, however you’ll by no means know. That’s the factor, it’s an invisible artwork in that means as nicely that you simply’ll by no means actually know.
TAN: It’s such an invisible artwork.
DESROSIERS: I feel you’re proper Rosie, you’ve watched the entire course of. I imply, The Queen’s Gambit, holy cow, there’s some superb editorial thrives in that. I feel Michele Tesoro did that, proper?
HULLFISH: Yeah.
DESROSIERS: I’ve by no means met her, however gosh, I used to be actually fairly impressed with that type of stuff.
HULLFISH: You’ll need to hearken to the Artwork of the Lower interview.
DESROSIERS: I’ll undoubtedly. I would like time. I’ve a two-year-old so…
HULLFISH: Oh my goodness. Good luck with that. It’s been some time since I’ve had a two-year-old, however I keep in mind these days.
I feel followers and different individuals are actually impressed with Marvel and the story intelligence and the data of their very own product with Kevin Feige and others that simply appear to be clearly on the prime of their recreation.
What’s the notes course of like? Do you are feeling like getting notes at Marvel is completely different from getting notes on different reveals that you simply’ve been on?
TAN: I like how type everyone seems to be and their notes course of is definitely very nicely thought out after we get paperwork. Numerous instances Kevin, Louis, and Victoria know what’s coming forward, however we don’t know. There are little gems that we’re not aware about in the intervening time in time, in order that they gained’t say it.
Once more, the paperwork are so nicely thought out when we now have conferences with them it’s actually like, “This isn’t working due to this,” that we’re not considering of. I’m grateful that that is such an enormous universe. I’m so completely happy to be a part of the machine, they usually’re so type. I feel firstly of becoming a member of this, I wasn’t certain if we’re going to work with Kevin, Louis, Victoria, and the staff, so then to have the ability to have classes with them, it makes me assume, “My gosh. We’re actually working with them.”
Sadly, due to COVID, we have been all on Zoom. So, I’m actually within the field. Hopefully, in the future we’ll work in particular person, however I simply love how elaborate the notes course of is. If one thing isn’t understanding, we’ll all discuss it, after which the subsequent factor you already know we’ll get one other stack of notes, and after a dialogue, they’re keen to unravel issues or attempt issues. There are simply many passes of asking, “If one thing’s not working, why isn’t it working? Let’s ask just a few completely different individuals for his or her opinion,” and we’re simply making an attempt it. Then, we’ll go to our inside staff after which we’ll work out how we’ll all do this model after which we assault it that means. So, it’s actually collaborative and completely different, undoubtedly.
DESROSIERS: I feel early on, that was one of many principal causes I used to be actually completely happy to leap on working for Marvel Studios simply because clearly what they’ve achieved is fairly superb, they usually’re the identical individuals which have been central in Kevin, Louis, and Victoria.
“It’s simply far much less intimate and much much less like spitball, particularly for early concepts. So, that was one thing that COVID took away.”
As Rosie was saying, they know what stuff is coming, however they’ve been engaged on these items on the script section for years earlier than we even are coming in and watching dailies. So, they realize it far more intimately than us, which is fairly spectacular. I believed, “Wow, I get an opportunity to work with these individuals, they usually’re so good at what they do. It’d be a tremendous alternative.” We had Jen Bergman, who was our submit producer in Atlanta, and we had Tristan Mathews right here in LA and he was superior. Tristan was new to Marvel too, however Jen had been engaged on it endlessly and she or he stated, “Oh yeah, Kevin will likely be within the room with you guys. You’ll be working and he actually loves the post-process.” So, I believed, “Wow, that is actually nice.”
So, as Rosie stated, COVID modified that and it grew to become a Zoom session. That’s superb, it’s simply far much less intimate and much much less like spitball, particularly for early concepts. So, that was one thing that COVID took away in a way. That’s when Jeff got here on. Then, we had somebody we will work with intimately day by day, and one thing like that was actually particular.
Having stated all that, I’ve been wanting ahead to the notes course of from these guys from day one. It was superior. The insights and the way nicely Kevin actually is aware of these tales and what he needs, and he has such a laid-back method and a very humorous humorousness. So, it’s not a painful course of in any respect. It’s really type of enjoyable.
HULLFISH: I consider a number of the less-experienced producers or administrators that I’ve labored with and the way I’d push again a bit bit extra towards them than I might any person else. I might assume, “I don’t know if I might push again on any thought,” however you have to have, proper?
DESROSIERS: That’s what they need really. They don’t need you to simply say, “Sure, sir. No, sir.” The factor is, due to the character of it, the paper notes would are available in and also you attempt some stuff and then you definitely assume, “This isn’t working for that type of factor or that motive.” So, then when you get all the pieces up on its toes and also you’re attending to a Zoom session and a final seems second with them, they have been understanding if it wasn’t working.
TAN: You simply present them alts.
DESROSIERS: I’ve at all times tried all the pieces. I’ll by no means say no. I realized early on: don’t say no. I had a mentor-director that I labored with some time again who used to edit. There have been a few instances the place I stated, “I can’t do it. I can’t try this now. There’s simply no means.” Then he would get within the room with me and about an hour later we did what he requested. He simply noticed it differently, and I realized fairly early on: don’t say no. There’s at all times a means. Be open to it.
“I realized early on: don’t say no.”
HULLFISH: That could be a enormous tip as a result of I agree that there have been, not very many instances, however it had occurred the place I stated, “This be aware will not be going to work. There’s no sense even losing my time on it.” Then, being compelled to do the be aware and having it work nice, and also you assume, “Ugh, now I appear like an fool.”
DESROSIERS: Yeah. Even when there’s a be aware you don’t agree with—at some factors Jeff didn’t agree with it—we might do it and we’d have it as a result of if Kevin needed it, it’s going to go in. However you’d struggle for it they usually need you to struggle for it, to your perspective. It is perhaps unsuitable they usually would possibly humble you, however they need you to struggle for it as a result of which means you care.
TAN: Yeah, and simply present choices. If one thing isn’t working, present them why. For instance, you might go down a special rabbit gap of the unsuitable variations and it’s okay. We’ll simply put it apart and we’ll hold trucking on shifting in the proper route, and also you gained’t know that till you really attempt it. Such as you stated, generally you’re considering, “I don’t know if it’s ever going to work,” and then you definitely attempt it and also you assume, “I’m glad I attempted it and I didn’t say one thing or be resistant.”
Working with Jeff Ford and his first assistant, Robin Buday, who’ve each achieved all these completely different motion pictures and simply selecting their brains on stuff, generally we’re displaying one thing and Jeff is aware of the character so nicely, he’ll simply inform us proper off, “That is in all probability not… Let’s do this.” So, it’s actually nice to have the inner staff that means.
“He is aware of the method miles forward and why your thought is perhaps troublesome based mostly on what’s coming.”
DESROSIERS: Yeah, he’s somebody you might present it to early on and he’ll let you already know for those who’re in the proper route or unsuitable route and let you know why it’s not working. That was tremendous useful too. Particularly the large motion sequences and likewise the visible results stuff the place he is aware of the method miles forward and why your thought is perhaps troublesome based mostly on what’s coming. It was uncommon as a result of they don’t need you to get locked-in based mostly on one thing like that, however it could occur.
Additionally, we’re dealing in a brand new paradigm of all email-based now. It’s not face-to-face anymore. You’ll be able to take one thing the unsuitable means and then you definitely’re shifting down the unsuitable avenue based mostly on somebody misreading one thing. So, let’s actually get our finish of issues tight, after which we’ll transfer on from there. That was a very essential and necessary approach to go about it, and I feel lots of people are in all probability experiencing the identical factor on their very own as a result of there’s loads of working from dwelling occurring proper now.
TAN: Each staff was completely different, however for us, Tristan Mathews, our submit supervisor, was nice about organizing conferences for everyone in order that we have been at all times in communication. I really feel like generally we perhaps have too many conferences however it’s not simply with him, it’s simply with different groups additionally. The place it was once in pre-lockdown was you may simply stroll to any person’s room and simply get the reply. Whereas, now you’ve received to make an appointment for that assembly after which this different assembly, however, once more, I’m grateful for it as a result of then we will simply go all the way down to ask the query on Zoom and simply click on and we’re there. However Tristan would plan these conferences with all of the editors and assistant editors and we have been simply speaking it out.
DESROSIERS: The opposite factor too is in early days, they’d have these catch-up Fridays, they usually didn’t final simply due to the character of issues. For those who’re on eight hours’ price of Zoom calls, because it received in the direction of the top, the very last thing you need is a catch-up Friday. It was additionally actually necessary, I feel, particularly early days the place it was about holding the human aspect of this, the half the place you’ll see one another within the kitchen and also you chit-chat to catch up and see how individuals are doing on a private degree.
Tristan was one of many those that helped architect that type of factor, and that was actually essential, particularly in early days when there’s a lot stress occurring about what’s occurring, questioning, “Am I going to get to go exterior, hug my mother once more?” I do preserve, perhaps we have been fortunate, however it felt like a household there. I feel Marvel is fairly distinctive in that it’s a large enterprise, however at its coronary heart it appears like an unbiased film firm. There’s a household nature to it.
TAN: Once we have been in Atlanta, Jen Bergman, our manufacturing submit supervisor, would at all times set conferences there in particular person too. We’d see the WandaVision guys down the opposite aspect of the constructing and it was cool. It made us assume, “Oh my gosh, what’s occurring over there?” Then, let’s see the Loki staff.
DESROSIERS: There’s a collegial kind of factor. It was like a brilliant associates kind of place to go as a result of they have been at all times there. They’re at their wing, you may solely go up to now and you may’t ask too many questions of one another, however you may discuss, “Oh, that’s cool, blah, blah, blah…” chit chat over espresso. That was superior. That was actually distinctive too. I imply, it’s going to come back again, however proper now it’s achieved like this.
HULLFISH: Guys, thanks a lot to your time. I actually admire all the pieces you needed to chat about. Thanks.
TAN: Thanks for having us.
DESROSIERS: Thanks. You made it simple. You’re a professional.
