Whenever you’ve bought documentaries for Sting alongside Man Ritchie’s Lock, Inventory and Two Smoking Barrels in your showreel, you’re clearly doing one thing proper. Immediately, we’re speaking with Niven Howie, ACE about modifying the Netflix TV sequence Shadow and Bone, which was primarily based on the 2012 novel of the identical title.
Niven’s modifying profession began within the music video and high-end advert world. He was launched into characteristic movies when he edited Julien Temple’s Bullet adopted by chopping Lock, Inventory and Two Smoking Barrels which was nominated for a BAFTA Award for Greatest modifying. He obtained one other BAFTA nomination for the TV sequence, His Darkish Supplies, and was additionally nominated for an Emmy for Paul McCartney’s live performance movie, Again within the US.
Different work contains options like Daybreak of the Useless, The Hitchhiker’s Information to the Galaxy, and Resident Evil: Extinction.
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HULLFISH: I used to be taking a look at your IMDb page, and it appears to be like such as you began out with lots of music movies again within the day. Inform me about making that transition from chopping actually high-end movies—that I noticed once I was watching MTV—to transferring into narrative. Did you observe a director that bought the prospect to maneuver to narrative work?
HOWIE: I began modifying within the early eighties, and it was simply earlier than MTV kicked off. I used to be in a band in school, and I initially needed to file music. That was one thing I liked. I liked our evenings or weekends within the studio enjoying with the mixer. Again then it was all analog. I knew a little bit bit about primary electronics, I constructed my very own reverb unit, stuff like that. I used to be a guitarist.
I bought sucked into working at a video rental facility that was simply beginning out. I had a go together with a digicam and all kinds of kit; I used to be fairly good at establishing video projectors. Our fundamental shoppers have been the large promoting businesses in London: JWT, Saatchi and Saatchi, that form of factor.
Lastly, they purchased a little bit two-machine three-quarter-inch edit set-up, and I had a go together with that. I liked it, so I shortly left and bought myself a job at one of many Soho boutique post-production amenities. They’d simply taken on a well known color-grader who was grading music movies: The Remedy movies and all that within the eighties. I navigated myself into that space, managed to do a couple of freebie music movies, and at last bought a couple of common shoppers. I caught them on the proper time simply earlier than all of us took off.
I used to be doing one or two per week, and one in all my fundamental shoppers—after I actually discovered my title there—was Julien Temple. He began off bringing his rough-cut music movies to me so as to add dissolves as a result of I’d arrange my very own facility that had computer-controlled three-quarter-inch machines, three of them with a Grass Valley 100 Mixer. I might add dissolves and create EDLs, and there have been solely two offline amenities in London on the time that provided that. He introduced me two movies so as to add dissolves to, however he realized that he needed to really give me the entire edit in the long run.
I had a fantastic time period modifying a few of these movies he was doing for Duran Duran and Mick Jagger, after which he bought a film off the bottom. It was his third film. He’d had an disagreeable expertise on his earlier film the place the editor wouldn’t enable him to have a look at dailies or various takes. I’d already been chopping brief movies and TV dramas, so I had some dramatic expertise. He took an opportunity and gave me this film which was Bullet with Ted Levine, Mickey Rourke, Tupac Shakur. That was within the early nineties, I feel we shot it in ‘94.
I went again to doing music movies and commercials after that, after which lastly bought a name in ‘97 some years later for a little bit gangster film. It was a really low-budget movie the place that they had truly let the primary editor go after two or three weeks into the shoot as a result of he didn’t know the way to use Lightworks.
That was Lock, Inventory and Two Smoking Barrels, which clearly opened up a lot of doorways for me as a result of, though I used to be quite nervous about doing it, we included lots of results and kinds that I developed in music movies and commercials. So I bought seen, and instantly I used to be chopping options nonstop.
HULLFISH: Being within the UK, you jumped to Lightworks as an alternative of Avid early on. That was the predominant NLE in England, right?
HOWIE: Within the dramatic world, sure, and definitely in options.
HULLFISH: Was Bullet reduce on an NLE?
HOWIE: That was Lightworks. It was within the very early days. I feel we had 25 gigabytes. I used to have an assistant work in a single day to consolidate and set up the subsequent scene’s dailies so I might reduce the subsequent scene. We might solely actually work scene-by-scene. We print-conformed it, and I hadn’t seen a number of the huge pictures correctly due to the unhealthy decision. I noticed there have been cameras at the back of the pictures.
HULLFISH: Do you keep in mind what the transition was like for you from music movies to narrative work? What have been a number of the issues that you just discovered, or wanted to be taught, whenever you converted to narrative?
“I’d attempt to repair it in publish, however I made a acutely aware determination that efficiency is God.”
HOWIE: There was a acutely aware determination to surrender my love of digicam pictures and the great thing about a digicam transfer. I keep in mind realizing that I needed to go together with efficiency. If the digicam transfer wasn’t excellent, I’d attempt to repair it in publish, however I made a acutely aware determination that efficiency is God. That’s what you actually need to root for when deciding which shot to decide on. That was one of many fundamental issues, however music movies again then have been telling tales, anyway. They have been very narrative. Though they’re three-and-a-half minutes lengthy, lots of it was narrative. It wasn’t a fantastic change for me.
HULLFISH: Let’s speak about Shadow and Bone. I’ve talked with a lot of editors which have reduce motion pictures or TV reveals primarily based on a ebook or another media. Do you learn the ebook beforehand or not?
HOWIE: Positively not. I really feel fairly strongly about that. I feel an editor’s function is to seek out the perfect story from what’s been filmed. Movie goes by further script rewrites, then they discover areas and units, and so they compromise on issues. Then, the director has a imaginative and prescient, and so they have sure pictures that she or he falls in love with. All of these authentic ideas and concepts can actually blind you as to what’s greatest from what’s truly been captured.
In Breaking Dangerous, one of many lead characters was initially going to die within the second season. They determined he was actually highly effective, so that they fully rewrote it. I actually don’t wish to get slowed down with concepts from an authentic ebook or novel that has been jettisoned for a TV adaptation.
Nevertheless, I in all probability will learn it earlier than season two kicks off.
HULLFISH: I’ve positively heard the identical thought, that you just get one thing caught in your head that isn’t the primary focus of the story.
HOWIE: I really feel the identical about storyboards. I are likely to ignore these as a result of, once more, it’s one thing that was simply imagined and drawn out. It isn’t essentially the way in which it’s been captured.
HULLFISH: One of many issues that I seen from watching that is that it’s very fantasy-oriented, much like a Sport of Thrones kind of present. There’s a particular language. There’s a really distinctive and unusual world that we don’t dwell in. Do it’s a must to be extra cognizant of telling a clear story whenever you’ve bought a lot fantasy?
HOWIE: Positively. You’ve bought to ascertain world guidelines and areas which might be fully alien to us. We regularly discover that we now have so as to add in ADR to assist help the viewers after we return to a location from three episodes in the past to remind them the place it’s. You do need to put up a couple of extra signposts for the viewers. That’s one thing that Eric Heisserer, our show-runner, was so good at. He had the entire form of the present completely set out in his head.
Actually, in my two episodes in the midst of the season, by that time the world was established. I truly had a greater time than the start episodes as a result of there was a lot to really develop and set up in these first few episodes. By the point we bought to mine, we have been off and working. Mine have been a enjoyable few episodes the place we had the Crows—that are my favourite characters—truly getting on and performing some capers.
HULLFISH: I’m assuming you watched these earlier episodes earlier than yours. What sort of interplay was there between the modifying workforce?
HOWIE: I used to be already modifying my episode earlier than I bought to see episode one. They have been fairly protecting of it as a result of it hadn’t been proven to the community. As soon as it had been proven to the community, then we had this huge screening the place all of us went in a single room and watched all of it collectively. That was very useful. To start with, we have been simply working in isolation.
A lot of Shadow and Bone’s areas are in Budapest, together with the grand Buda Fort.
HULLFISH: You’ve labored on characteristic movies, and also you’ve labored on TV sequence. How are they totally different?
HOWIE: Actually, the tempo of the modifying is kind of totally different. Reasonably than having 10 weeks with a director on a characteristic movie, you’ve bought 4 or 5 days with a director in TV. I actually needed to change my methodology and means of working. I’m very pleased with the way in which I’ve managed to make shortcuts in the way in which that I work, but nonetheless really feel that I’ve bought the perfect selections of efficiency and that I’ve watched each take. Though I solely watch dailies as soon as and make notes now, whereas on a characteristic I’d in all probability watch them two or 3 times. I quite just like the quick tempo.
HULLFISH: Are there different issues that you just felt you needed to change in the way in which you edit to have the ability to carry out at that tempo?
HOWIE: There aren’t actually many adjustments. The principle factor is viewing dailies and making notes abruptly. On options, I keep in mind we used to have dailies screenings. I used to essentially take pleasure in going to set at lunchtime and screening dailies from the day gone by with the crew. I’d get perception as to issues they have been making an attempt to seize, and also you’d hear feedback from the Director of Pictures. That was fairly useful. We don’t have that these days, sadly. I’d have gone again and rewatched these dailies, after which made my notes, and I’d have already seen them as soon as. That’s one distinction.
There are fewer takes in TV as a result of they actually don’t have the time to shoot 9, upwards takes. There are in all probability extra like three-to-five takes of every setup, on the most. I feel it’s much less to attempt to maintain in your head, so it’s a little bit simpler to deal with whenever you’re attacking a scene. You’ve bought a greater thought of what there’s.
My methodology hasn’t modified in the way in which I work. I do nonetheless watch each take earlier than I begin. I do know some editors who simply cope with the selects, then as soon as they’ve reduce the scene they return and verify the options. I actually like to seek out what I name ‘the little magic moments,’ and infrequently they’re in uncircled takes. Even when it’s a response that’s notably good, I make a remark of these and ensure I get them in my first reduce. I all the time be sure I save my first reduce as a result of we’ll usually undergo numerous notes phases with producers, administrators, showrunners, and typically overdevelop a scene. It’s good to return and see what I had carried out initially. Very often, the preliminary intestine feeling was the perfect. I usually return to the unique reduce.
The director has a imaginative and prescient, and usually I align myself with the director as a result of I’m making an attempt to assist them get their imaginative and prescient to fruition. There usually turns into a little bit little bit of a battle with the studio the place they take away some barely dangerous issues, or one thing that’s uncommon. There’s the standard word that the reduce is just too gradual, which has modified in the previous few years. I discover that lots of drama now has slowed proper down, which is attention-grabbing. We’re extra into the cinematic model, letting pictures develop, which I quite like. It did get very post-MTV for some time. Every little thing needed to be, “Fast, fast, fast. Take all of the air out!”
It varies, typically the director’s imaginative and prescient is excellent and stable, and you actually battle for that. Typically the producers have an excellent argument, and also you mediate. My function as an editor does change relying on who I feel has the perfect final concepts for the venture.
HULLFISH: You have been mentioning your workflow and your methodology. How do you strategy a clean timeline? After you are taking your preliminary notes wanting on the dailies, what occurs?
HOWIE: I actually like to alter it up. I wish to strategy a scene otherwise every time. Typically I’ll make a selects reel. Usually, if it’s an motion scene, there’s no different means round it. When you don’t make a stable selects-cut for motion, then you definitely’re not going to get the perfect scene out of it. In an everyday scene, I’ll in all probability choose the perfect take from the leads and begin off with that.
Typically, I’ll begin with the wide-shots, after which reduce close-ups into it. Typically, I’ll begin with close-ups, after which really feel the place I wish to be huge and put wide-shots in. I like to cut and alter. I don’t wish to be inflexible about the way in which I strategy a scene. It’s good to maintain making an attempt totally different methodologies and methods of approaching scenes.
Finally, I in all probability find yourself with very a lot the identical factor. I usually discover that once I return and evaluate edits, if I re-started recent and approached a scene a unique means, the ins-and-outs would solely be a body or two off from what I had initially.
HULLFISH: Have you ever used the British model of slating and the American model? Inform us what the distinction is, and why you like one over the opposite?
HOWIE: They each have professionals and cons. For assistants, I feel the British means is helpful as a result of it’s instantly apparent in case you’re lacking a shot. Every shot has a consecutive quantity, so if instantly there’s a quantity lacking, then clearly one thing has gone fallacious within the course of. In that regard, the British methodology is kind of helpful. I desire the American model myself, the place you’ve bought the distinguished scene quantity. There’s not an enormous distinction in my thoughts. As soon as the assistant’s handled all of it, and it’s neatly in scene bins, there’s not an enormous distinction.
HULLFISH: Discuss to me about pacing and giving breadth to a narrative. How do you tempo an general story, not simply from cut-to-cut?
HOWIE: That simply comes with expertise. Actually doing characteristic movies, you actually need to take heed to the truth that as soon as it will get up on the large display, there’s much more actual property to observe. It takes a little bit longer to absorb a shot as a result of your eyes need to scan left and proper, and also you’re noticing particulars that in all probability on a small display you wouldn’t discover a lot. There’s much more subtlety to options.
Most of my unease with having to tempo up is again in my characteristic movie days. I’m probably not discovering that with tv, however I nonetheless have that ingrained and acutely aware thought {that a} shot must final a sure period of time for you to have the ability to actually take it in correctly. I’ve managed to bridge the hole between options and tv, though now folks have TV screens so giant that I feel the tempo is slower as a result of there’s much more to see. Particularly with such excessive resolutions now, we’re in all probability seeing a better decision at house on a giant 85” display than we do within the cinema.
I usually discover that in case you don’t have an excellent temp rating, sound design, and sound results, then the reduce shall be misinterpreted as ‘too gradual’ by studio execs. They don’t seem to have the ability to think about what it will be like with the proper music and the last word combine.
HULLFISH: What sort of sound design do you do? Is that one thing you flip over to an assistant? Inform me a little bit bit about fleshing out a scene with sound results.
HOWIE: If I would like one thing primary to assist me reduce, I’ll drop it in. If I reduce a scene in a cave, then I would simply discover a little bit sound of dripping stalactite so I really feel like I’m in a cave. In any other case, I would definitely have my assistant try this work. I actually admire the work that goes into discovering the proper sounds. Then they liaise with the sound designer if there’s one thing particular. What does ‘the Fold’ sound like? Issues like that actually are past a standard library of sound results.
HULLFISH: Since you didn’t come up by the assistant modifying path, how did you discover an assistant? How do you’re employed with an assistant?
HOWIE: Again within the early days, I used to be definitely aiding myself. On Lightworks, you’d need to do the entire thing on a number of initiatives. I’ve discovered to adapt and make actually good use of the assistant. There are particular issues they try this I’d do not know the way to do, I’d be fingers and thumbs. I’m glad I’ve bought somebody that is aware of the way to do all that. Plus, I actually like having a sounding board. I usually convey my assistant in to have a look at my first reduce and get suggestions. I feel it’s wholesome to have one other pair of eyes you can belief for an opinion.
On some initiatives, I’ve had my assistant in the identical room as me, which I actually favored. That’s one thing from the movie days that could be a disgrace we don’t have: that shut working surroundings they used to have again within the movie days, the place assistants could be discovering what they thought you would want and get it prepared for you.
HULLFISH: What sort of screenings have been there of these early cuts on Shadow and Bone? Was there something public, or was all of it an in-house screening course of?
HOWIE: Nothing public so far as I’m conscious. It was all in-house with our producers and the community.
HULLFISH: I’m assuming you’re chopping on Avid?
HOWIE: Yeah, I gave up with Lightworks within the mid-2000s. I labored on Avid on Daybreak of the Useless.
I keep in mind I used to be on machine #144 at Common. I knew that there was no means of making an attempt to work on Lightworks in L.A. at the moment, so I switched within the early 2000s and correctly gave it up round 2005.
I did love that controller, and I used to be tremendous quick on it. I used to be positively very fast on Lightworks. I discovered that controller very intuitive, and I liked the truth that it had that Steenbeck scroller that you’d use to scan forwards and backwards, quite than bounce. When you scan up and down movie as they used to on Moviolas, then you definitely catch sure issues, cease on them and say, “Maintain on, that was helpful.” Whereas leaping between markers, you’re probably not having an opportunity to scan by footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qenVwip1Wm4
HULLFISH: I do know folks from again within the movie days who used to chop on one KEM, and they’d both rewind or they’d have one other KEM to the aspect that was simply enjoying footage. You’ll catch one thing out of the nook of your eye and say, “Wait, what was that?”
HOWIE: I really like going to the grade as a result of it’s a possibility to observe your reduce with none sound. You’ll be able to actually see if the reduce is working when there’s no sound, if it performs and also you’re nonetheless having fun with it. That’s an excellent course of. I do know different editors who flip the colour off and do all kinds of issues, however I don’t try this within the chopping room.
HULLFISH: What do you assume adjustments in the way in which that you just view the scene when there’s no sound?
HOWIE: It’s purely motion. You’re taking within the body and digicam strikes. You’re actually taking a look at motion, digicam, and characters. You maybe discover the framing a little bit greater than you do whenever you’re acutely aware of the particular audio efficiency. You’re nearly taking a look at it like a Director of Pictures would, the place they’re in all probability not so acutely aware of what’s been mentioned as a result of they’re taking a look at what’s in body and whether or not it’s barely off the bubble.
HULLFISH: Discuss to me about utilizing temp-score. Was there a palette that had been established earlier than you?
HOWIE: On Shadow and Bone, we had our composer. I didn’t actually know Joseph Trapanese’s scores that nicely, and so they hadn’t been in my toolkit for temp-score. It was a little bit of a studying course of. I’d usually have it on within the background if I used to be chopping an motion piece and pay attention by to slowly get to know sure passages. We had his library of music—which is very large—and there have been clearly sure tracks that felt like they might work for Shadow and Bone.
We leaned into these, however I did usually put in different composers’ works in sure areas the place we would have liked one thing extra particular. That will be my Frankenstein’s monster of a toolkit, which accommodates a long time of various kinds of music. Usually once I would reduce options, it actually could be a ridiculous Frankenstein’s monster of kinds. You’re making an attempt to create a temper to assist with the viewer for the rough-cut, but in addition for the composer to go and enhance them.
HULLFISH: What are another issues about Shadow and Bone that we are able to speak about with reference to story, or regarding the construction? Did the construction change, or have been the cuts near the script?
HOWIE: My two episodes launched two new characters, and we juggled these scenes quite a bit. We tried introducing the characters at totally different factors inside my block. We additionally had some pickup shoots with a couple of scenes for a number of the early episodes to assist flesh out characters, and likewise to assist with a number of the story in my episodes. Sure, it did change. Not dramatically, however in one in all my episodes I actually needed to work with a board stuffed with scene stills as a result of we juggled it fully. When you have a look at the scene order in comparison with the script, it was like somebody had shuffled the playing cards.
HULLFISH: What have been the issues that made you are feeling like that was vital?
HOWIE: There have been a couple of apparent issues the place there have been errors. There was one scene the place the guard is available in and speaks to Baghra and provides her some data that hadn’t occurred. It was primarily intercutting characters. In my episodes particularly, we’re going from numerous totally different environments. You’ve bought Alina and Mal on their journey, Kirigan together with his crowd, after which the Crows. They’re all in separate areas, so it actually may very well be juggled. We needed to maintain it feeling such as you’re tuning into each, however at an excellent level the place you’re not away from them for too lengthy. There’s all the time the concern that characters disappear and also you’ve forgotten them. A few of it was ensuring that we didn’t lose Alina or Mal and focus an excessive amount of on the Crows. Quite a lot of it was feeling the place we would have liked to meet up with a personality, to come back again and discover out what they have been as much as.
HULLFISH: As you probably did that juggling, have been there any attention-grabbing juxtapositions? Moments the place you thought, “That is nice as a result of now the transition from this scene to this scene that was not deliberate is far cooler.”
HOWIE: Positively. I keep in mind there have been a couple of the place we went straight from Alina to Mal, and that was a really blissful accident as a result of, emotionally, she’s interested by him, and he’s interested by her. They weren’t collectively, and we have been chopping from her to the Crows. Instantly, we’d reduce from her straight to a scene with Mal. You’re invested in them, they’re looking for each other, so these have been very lucky accidents that occurred from the juggle.
I noticed that earlier than I even had the director are available in, so I’d already carried out various juggling. We did do extra as soon as Mairzee Almas got here in and joined us. I had all the identical playing cards on the wall in order that we might visualize the place every little thing was. We continued to attempt a couple of totally different actions of scenes and construction.
HULLFISH: You modified issues earlier than you confirmed the director the editor’s reduce? Do you do something to arrange your director for that?
HOWIE: I’d warned them. One factor I received’t often do is take traces out earlier than I present the director. I’ll typically say, “I’ve taken a line or two out. I can present them to you in case you’d like, however I’m positive you’ll agree.” You’ve solely bought 4 days with them, so you must hit them along with your greatest shot.
HULLFISH: That’s a technique that options are in all probability a little bit totally different than TV.
HOWIE: I don’t assume I’d try this on a characteristic. I’d present them a reduce as scripted.
HULLFISH: I needed to ask you about judging modifying. It’s such a tough factor to do whenever you see someone else’s modifying. How do you decide that?
HOWIE: It’s very tough. There was an editor who was requested by BAFTA to be on a judging panel for greatest modifying, and he mentioned, “If you would like me to evaluate the modifying on a characteristic, I wish to see the editor’s meeting and the ultimate reduce.” As a result of it’s unimaginable to see what processes they went by.
Lock, Inventory and Two Smoking Barrels was a really totally different movie than what we first screened for a take a look at viewers. It had one other character in it that we eliminated. It had a very totally different ending. It’s very exhausting to inform how a lot impression an editor has had on a manufacturing. You’ll be able to see primary chopping model and whether or not you are feeling they’ve held onto pictures too lengthy or made jarring cuts that take you out—that’s one thing I can decide.
For me, the actual take a look at is that if I cease watching it as an editor, and I’m a punter. I’m in a position to take my editor’s hat off if the modifying is nice.
HULLFISH: Is there anything you wish to speak about concerning Shadow and Bone, or modifying normally?
HOWIE: Solely that I might inform very early on that there was one thing particular right here, and the workforce was such a stunning workforce. Very early on, we have been pressured to go house and work remotely. I mentioned, “I’m loving this sequence. I’d love to remain on it in case you want an editor to see it by to the tip.” Editors have been beginning to depart and have been introduced onto different initiatives. I used to be provided a pilot, however I mentioned, “I’d desire to remain on this. Are you able to inform me in order for you me? I’ll flip down this pilot.”
They assured that they did. That was earlier than COVID-19 hit, so I used to be very lucky to be engaged on Shadow and Bone proper by to the tip of the yr. I liked working with Eric and Ted, the visible results supervisor, and everybody on the workforce. I feel 21 Laps have been superb on this as nicely, that was our manufacturing firm.
HULLFISH: Who was your assistant editor?
HOWIE: My son, Chester. He’s been my assistant editor for a couple of years now, and he’s good. He is aware of my likes and dislikes, and we’ve bought a shorthand. He’s very, superb.
HULLFISH: You talked about that a few of this manufacturing was reduce at house remotely. Inform me a little bit bit about that workflow. How do you assume the pandemic has modified the post-production workflow?
HOWIE: We’ve proved that you are able to do it. It’s not as pleasing an expertise for me. It’s nice to bodily be in the identical place. One factor I keep in mind from take a look at screenings is that I all the time loved seeing how folks shuffled within the seats within the cinema. You’ll be able to learn an viewers not simply audibly, but in addition from their actions, whether or not they’re tucking into their popcorn or glued to the display. That bodily presence could be very helpful for screenings, however apart from that we might actually do every little thing remotely with Evercast so long as you’ve bought quick sufficient web.
HULLFISH: What did you utilize on Shadow and Bone?
HOWIE: We used Evercast. I feel we switched to PacPost.dwell on the very finish, which was simply pretty much as good. I did love Evercast, I feel it’s an excellent system. I arrange my very own little system for streaming utilizing a Black Magic field.
One factor I did do—which lots of editors haven’t been in a position to do as a result of I’ve bought my son as my assistant—is I put in shared storage. We might share media and initiatives, which was an enormous benefit over editors separated from their assistants. I skilled that for the primary few months earlier than I put in the shared storage, and it wasn’t enjoyable.
HULLFISH: What shared storage answer did you utilize?
HOWIE: I’ve bought a QNAP with Mimiq licenses.
HULLFISH: Mimiq helps you with bin locking, right?
HOWIE: Sure, and it really works completely. It’s actually good.
HULLFISH: Niven, thanks a lot for becoming a member of me. I hope folks get an opportunity to take a look at Shadow and Bone. When you’re lacking Sport of Thrones, it is a nice fantasy sequence.
HOWIE: Completely. It has a fantastic solid, and it’s fantastically photographed with improbable costumes. I actually hope that it will get acknowledged for lots of the classes. It was a fantastic sequence to work on.
HULLFISH: Nicely, good luck to you, and we’ll see how the Emmys go.
HOWIE: Thanks very a lot, Steve.
