The Obi-Wan Kenobi modifying workforce of Kelley Dixon, ACE and Josh Earl, ACE have lengthy been associates exterior of the chopping room, however Obi-Wan is the primary mission they’ve shared. A five-time Emmy-winner, Josh didn’t must suppose twice about Kelley’s provide to affix the Lucasfilm collection, ostensibly as her assistant despite the fact that he’s labored for years as an editor. A self-professed Star Wars nerd, he jumped on the probability irrespective of the function. As for Kelley, her plan was at all times to have Josh’s artistic editorial skills shine by way of throughout publish—culminating in a shared modifying credit score on the collection finale that earned each one other Emmy nomination.
Obi-Wan Kenobi takes place ten years after the occasions of Star Wars: Episode III – Revenge of the Sith (2005). In that chapter, the Jedi have been purged with Order 66 and Obi-Wan Kenobi’s apprentice, Anakin Skywalker, grew to become the Sith Lord Darth Vader. Kenobi is in hiding on the planet Tatooine, watching over Anakin’s son, Luke, when he’s known as on a mission to rescue Anakin’s daughter, Leia, after she is kidnapped by the Galactic Empire’s Jedi-hunting Inquisitors in a plot to attract Kenobi out. This results in one more dramatic duel between Kenobi and Vader.
In our dialogue with the Obi-Wan Kenobi modifying workforce of Kelley Dixon, ACE and Josh Earl, ACE we speak about:
- Bringing one thing from Breaking Bad to Tatooine
- Making the soar from editor to assistant editor?
- Being on location in “The Volume”
- Synthesizing new sounds for the Sith Lord
- Intercutting with lightsabers
Check out The Rough Cut podcast to take heed to this interview.
Editing Obi-Wan Kenobi
Warning: this interview accommodates minor spoilers.
Matt Feury: Something dawned on me as I used to be preparing for this interview. I don’t know the way you two met. I don’t suppose you’ve ever labored collectively previous to Obi-Wan Kenobi. Since Star Wars is all about origin tales, I assumed we should always get the Kelley-and-Josh origin story.
Kelley Dixon, ACE: That’s really a very good story. It was 2012, and we have been each requested to be on this Emmy Prime/Cuts panel, which is the place they get a bunch of Emmy nominees collectively that yr and put them on a panel.
I didn’t know Josh. I had no thought who Josh was. There was one other editor there named Kabir Akhtar, ACE. There have been a bunch of different panelists, however Josh, Kabir, and I gravitated towards one another as a result of, when the moderator known as on us, we really had one thing enjoyable to say.
Who was the moderator? I believe it was the dude that used to run The Shield.
Josh Earl, ACE: I believe so.
Kelley Dixon: He stated one thing like, “What is your best advice in the cutting room?” Josh stated, “Don’t be a dick.” I used to be like, “That dude!” After the entire thing, we grew to become associates.
Josh Earl: I stand by that assertion nonetheless. Don’t be a dick. I’d as nicely get that tattooed on the again of my neck.
MF: If that doesn’t win you an Emmy, Josh, I don’t know what’s going to. Kelley, lately, I do know you’ve been doing issues like The Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, issues that contain large motion, a lot of visible results.
But I’m certain the tasks that first come to thoughts when folks focus on your work are reveals like Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, actual true-to-form, dramatic, largely dialogue-driven reveals.
Do both of these issues play into how you bought Obi-Wan Kenobi? Was there one thing particular about your background the place they stated, “This is what we’re looking for from you?”
Kelley Dixon: Yeah, that’s true. My agent known as me up in November of 2020. He stated, “Hey, Star Wars is doing a streaming thing on Obi-Wan Kenobi and they want to talk to you.” I requested, “Why? What is Star Wars calling me for?” I used to be actually flattered, however I simply didn’t know. I like Star Wars, however it actually isn’t in my pure wheelhouse. It’s much more action-based. The drama will not be actually excessive drama. It’s an attention-grabbing and intriguing drama, however it’s not like the actual deep stuff I used to be used to.
The director, Deborah Chow, received on a Zoom with me and stated, “We are looking for somebody who’s good with drama. We’ve been looking for you for a couple of years, but you’ve always been way too busy.”
I used to be actually shocked. I known as my agent and I stated, “Lucasfilm has been looking for me for two years!” He had no thought. So, I learn the scripts. To be truthful, I really needed to get the job earlier than they let the scripts out. Deborah satisfied me that there was going to be numerous drama and it was going to be totally different from numerous the Star Wars that we had seen earlier than.
I used to be additionally as a result of it was very feature-driven. They had one director for six episodes. They have been going to shoot it like a characteristic movie. They have been going to chop it and publish it like a characteristic, too. I used to be actually on the lookout for that sort of expertise reasonably than an episodic expertise, which has totally different administrators and a showrunner.
Then I learn the scripts and I used to be all in. I assumed the scripts have been actually nice. I used to be enthusiastic about how deep the drama went with Obi-Wan himself and the way he was filled with self-doubt. The method he needed to develop all through his journey was one thing that we hadn’t seen in Star Wars earlier than. It stayed true to all of the Star Wars lore and pleasure, however it wasn’t simply lightsaber battles and spaceships. Obi-Wan Kenobi is about this man who’s coping with fallibility.
Josh Earl: His internal bullshit. Tons of internal bullshit.
Kelley Dixon: And we received to see it onscreen, which is one thing I really feel like we don’t get to see lots in Star Wars.
MF: That’s an attention-grabbing level about his internal turmoil. Sometimes I’ll ask editors concerning the data that they must work with, they usually’ll say, “It’s what’s in the script, it’s what’s in the dailies, and it’s in what the director and I talk about.”
Then there are others that actually take it upon themselves to dig in, virtually like an actor would. Do you return and watch earlier storylines and take notes?
Kelley Dixon: Josh is aware of all these items! I positively went again and watched all of them. I watched all three of these prequel films as a result of it had been a very long time since I noticed Obi-Wan and what he was about, and what that relationship with Anakin Skywalker was. So I went again and did it.
In normal, I do as a lot analysis as I can. I used to be speaking to a good friend yesterday, and I stated, “If I’m approached by anything that has a book, I will read the book before I talk to the director or interview for the job.” I believe each single time I’ve researched, that analysis has gotten me the job. They appear impressed that I really spent the time studying it.
Also, you get some data with a script. But a script is 150 pages and a ebook is 700 pages. You’re going to get much more from the ebook, and also you’ll be capable of draw from all of that supply materials at any stage.
For this, I positively went and watched all the films as a result of I personally didn’t keep in mind. I don’t suppose Josh needed to do a lot analysis.
MF: For the oldsters enjoying at house, Josh simply held up his lightsaber.
Josh Earl: This, my good friend, is Obi-Wan Kenobi’s lightsaber, from our present. Hasbro, child.
MF: I assumed you stole it!
Josh Earl: Listen, if I received wherever close to that saber with intent to steal, three droids would have murdered me from the rafters. They would have dragged my physique out with the mouse droid. That would have been it.
In the yr main as much as this present, I watched all the films with my children with out even realizing concerning the present. It was in revisiting Revenge of the Sith the place I noticed, “This isn’t as bad as I once thought it was.”
It’s a kind of bizarre conditions the place, like, I instructed Kelley after I learn the script, it was—
Kelley Dixon: He didn’t get to learn the scripts till after he was employed, by the best way. You don’t even get them whenever you say sure to the job. They must undergo the authorized division contractually, get your complete signature, after which lastly they’ll get you the script.
Josh Earl: I simply received it from a Star Wars web site. It was on the market.
Kelley Dixon: No! He didn’t.
Josh Earl: That’s not true. Not true. Please don’t kill me, Lucasfilm.
I had watched the films main as much as Obi-Wan, and when it was time to learn the scripts, I noticed, “This is it. This is going to be my experience for Obi-Wan.”
So, the nerd a part of me kicked in. I performed music. I had the rating enjoying within the background. I had the script up on a display screen. I lit a few Tatooine-scented candles, sat down, and browse it by way of.
Randomly, Kelley would textual content me, “What part are you on? Which episode? You’re on three? What do you think of this? Okay, I’ll wait. I’m going to wait. And what’s happening in four? You see that?” I’m considering, “Hold on, I’m trying to absorb! I want to really love it.” Because after this, I’ve to show off that nerd half. Now it’s time to inform a narrative and make it superior, apart from my very own responsible nerd pleasures.
MF: Guilty nerd pleasures? That seems like a Showtime collection that I might positively not watch.
Josh Earl: It’s After Dark. You guys don’t wish to see it. It’s bizarre.
I wished to know what headspace Obi-Wan was in, so I did re-watch Sith simply to see. I didn’t actually keep in mind how he left off, mentally, or how damaged he actually was. At the top of Sith, you see that all the pieces simply crumbles for him. He’s misplaced a grasp, he’s misplaced your entire Jedi order, and he’s mainly introduced concerning the coming of the Dark Lord with out realizing it. He solely is aware of that his Padawan is without doubt one of the darkest folks so far.
Little does he know, he lived! And shock, he’s coming for you. He’s been on the lookout for you, buddy. He’s been looking out the galaxy.
Kelley Dixon: He’s additionally given up all the pieces that was his life earlier than. He’s realized, “This is the world now, and I have to figure out my way in it.”
He’s even approached by one other Jedi, and he says, “Look, that ain’t me.” He has turned his again on all of it as a result of he’s realized that, apart from his personal accountability in all of this, “We lost. We’re done. You’d better hide if you want to survive.” He’s not courting. He’s only a dude residing in a cave.
The factor about engaged on that is, everyone knows what comes subsequent. That’s the attention-grabbing factor about engaged on something, not simply this, however something the place what comes subsequent.
I labored on Better Call Saul. I stated, “Well, we know how this all ends.” It’s the actually proficient folks—I’m not speaking about myself. I’m speaking concerning the writers, the individuals who conceive this type of story. It’s about how they’ll maintain the drama nice once we know the remainder of the story.
To me, these scripts will not be solely about Obi-Wan. They’re additionally about this character we haven’t seen earlier than, Reva [played by Moses Ingram]. She was tremendous attention-grabbing to me. I had no thought the place it was all going with this woman all through the episodes.
I didn’t learn forward. I used to be simply actually intrigued about her agenda as a result of, like I stated, we all know the place Obi-Wan goes, and his internal journey was very attention-grabbing to me. But this character had an outward agenda that might change and alter. I assumed the scripts have been nice, however Josh is an actual big Star Wars fan. I requested him, “Does the fan side of you like it? Also, what do you think of the Reva story? What do you think is happening here?”
MF: Hang on a second, I’ve received to… “Kelley, you’ve worked on both Better Call Saul and now Obi-Wan, where you already know the outcome. How do you keep up the drum?” Okay, I scratched that off, since you nailed that one for me. That was the following query.
But what? I’m simply as excited concerning the query after that. It’s about you, Josh. Not solely have you ever been a lead editor for some time, however you have already got 5 Emmy awards in your shelf. I can’t imagine they’re not seen in your webcam.
Kelley Dixon: Yeah, present them!
Josh Earl: They’re on the opposite facet. I’ll present you in a bit.
MF: When you bought the decision from Kelley, it was about being her assistant on the present. Now, spoiler alert, you’re co-nominated as editors collectively for the finale. Some folks may say, “I’ve got five Emmys. I’m lead editor.” What was it like when Kelley known as you? What was the pitch, and what elements did you take into account in taking this job?
Josh Earl: First of all, Kelley is wonderful. She has known as me earlier than. There have been a few instances the place I used to be already supervising a collection. I couldn’t go away within the center. She known as and stated, “Listen, I just want to ask, do you want to do this thing?”
I’ll soar at any alternative. That’s one thing that I believe anybody would do on this trade, in the event you’re severe about it. I’ve no ego relating to these items.
“What is your best advice in the cutting room?” Josh stated, “Don’t be a dick.”
Kelley requested, “Do you want to work on Obi-Wan with me? It’ll be fun. You’ll cut, you’ll come in as the first assist, but I’m telling you, we’ll have a blast.” I stated, “Obi-Wan? I’m in. I don’t care. Just sign me up.”
The hurdle was, Lucasfilm wasn’t on the lookout for somebody like me. That’s simply the reality of it. They have been placing it out to brokers, and on the lookout for individuals who have sure credit. I’m not on their radar.
The wonderful half was getting to speak to the top of Lucasfilm’s post-production and the pitch. Kelley put me up for the job initially. She stated, “Here, call him. This is the guy. You got to call him.” They went, “Does he want to do it? Does he want to jump over and do this? You sure we’re going to call him?” I used to be over right here saying, “Tell them to call me! Don’t worry about it. I just want to talk to them. Let me talk to them!”
Kelley Dixon: They really known as me and stated, “You know, Josh is actually quite an established editor…”
Josh Earl: But it was not even a query in my ebook. So they known as, I talked to them for just a little bit, and I instructed them precisely what I’m telling you. “Hey, put me in there. Let me play in the sandbox. Let’s see what we can do.”
The different first assistant editor, Ken Terry, who’s wonderful, and I talked about it. I stated, “I do my own scripted stuff, because I’m an indie guy. I have done all my scripted stuff by myself. But I know everyone’s got rules, and I’m ready to go. But let’s hop on this.” Ken stated, “I’m more of a tech guy. You’re the creative guy. This should be a pretty great friendship.” And it was.
We additionally had a second assistant editor, Gioia Caruso, who was really a primary in her personal proper. She’s wonderful. She was one other one who was tremendous useful in my world. I got here in going, “I’m open. Let’s do everything. Whatever comes my way, I’m just going to do it.”
Unscripted is a very large trainer, to not point out doing it your self. I needed to do the workflows by myself. Having a construction was higher than the best way I do issues, the place I can’t train it to you, however I do know I can do it. I do know I can get it carried out. It all began that method. I began every week sooner than Kelley, and I used to be poking round, assembly the crew and all the pieces.
But when Kelley jumped in, she stated, “Let’s go to set! Let’s go talk to Deborah Chow. Let’s get right in there.” So we’re on set, and Kelley simply laid it out on the road. She stated, “Josh cuts, I cut. You have two cutters in one room.”
To Deb’s credit score, she didn’t must be as cool as she was. She stated, “Neat. All right. Anyway, here’s the set. Come on down whenever you want.” I don’t want an excuse to go go to a Star Wars set, to begin with, however taking place there with a objective, to say, “Do you need anything, Deb?” was wonderful. The consolation stage was in-built earlier than we even sat down in that room collectively.
Kelley Dixon: I first known as Josh after I received the job on The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I already had an assistant that I had labored with on a few issues, however he was busy. His title is Taylor Ervin, and he nonetheless works for Marvel. They wish to maintain him eternally. I known as Taylor and stated, “This is a really good opportunity,” and he stated, “Yeah, but I’m in the middle of this and that.” Then I known as Josh and stated, “I don’t know if you’re interested, but I’m on this Marvel project. I’d rather not go with somebody I don’t know. I’ve got to go on location.”
That was an even bigger deal, as a result of Josh has two children, a spouse, a home, and all that sort of stuff. It was going to be tougher for him to go to Atlanta for 4 months.
Then Taylor determined that it was a very good alternative. It was fairly life-changing for him. But after I received the decision for Obi-Wan, Taylor stated, “I can’t do it,” so I used to be in a pinch. Then I known as Josh once more and stated, “Something else has come up.” And Josh was in.
We don’t actually like to speak about it. Josh is an editor in his personal proper. But I’ll say, to his credit score and to the credit score of the present, that our intention was at all times to have Josh chopping. Sometimes in the actual world you need to use this stuff as a stepping stone. This was an incredible stepping stone. I instructed Josh, “I want them to see you cutting. I don’t want them to only see you doing dailies or color or visual effects. I want them to see you cutting.” Then they turn out to be very snug, hopefully, with this assistant or this individual chopping.
Also, I wished to make sure that, after I introduced up the concept of sharing modifying tasks with Josh, the response wouldn’t be, “Uh, let’s think about it.” I wished it to be, “Oh yeah, sure!” And that’s what occurred.
I instructed Josh, “We’re going to play this very slowly. Let Deborah see you cutting. Let her start working with you on her own.” Then Deborah began saying, “Let me go in Josh’s room and work with that.”
Josh has an incredible character. All Josh must do is be in entrance of individuals. He begins speaking they usually fall in love with him.
I at all times had the intention of sharing episode six with Josh. I’ve shared credit score with numerous assistants. The challenge is, normally, “Does it cost us anything to share?” That’s normally the problem with manufacturing. “Does it cost us anything? How does it affect what we have to do other than just going in and changing the credit?”
It does value them one thing. I’m unsure what all the foundations are, however I do know that they must ensure that there’s sufficient help for an extra editor. If there’s an editor, there needs to be sufficient help, and we had sufficient help for Josh to be chopping. I believe that is the primary time that we’ve ever actually been public about that complete story. Right, Josh?
Josh Earl: I believe so. Most interviews are so fast. This is the place to speak extra about the way it all went down.
Kelley Dixon: I need different folks to learn about this. First of all, I need assistants to have some hope on the market. But I additionally wish to present editors, if they’ve this inclination, the way to really do it so that you don’t trigger an uproar.
Sometimes you need to do it very slowly. That’s how I labored on Better Call Saul, getting Chris McCaleb, ACE moved up. He began on the final season of Breaking Bad. I instructed him, “I want to share a credit with you,” which had by no means been carried out. We had by no means carried out that earlier than. I stated, “I want to share a credit with you. But every time they come up to editorial, I want them to see you cutting.” They did, in order that’s how we labored it.
That one was just a little tougher. It was, “Okay, how do we pay him?” But it labored as a result of they have been already snug with him.
MF: You each casually talked about, “Hey, we’re just going to go down to set.” In this case, the set is The Volume, which is a singular expertise for an editor to be part of. What advantages does The Volume expertise have for editors? Are there any unfavourable impacts that this expertise has on the best way you’re employed?
Josh Earl: I believe folks ought to positively go take a look at the documentaries they did for Mandalorian and Obi-Wan on Disney Plus. It’s a very good method to see what we’re speaking about.
The Volume is an insane factor to step into, bodily. We received to step into an Imperial hangar at Fortress Inquisitorius. There was nobody round. The crew was at lunch, and we simply walked in. Kelley and I each stopped for a second, saying, “Holy cow.” It is a two-story display screen that wraps round your head. It’s unimaginable.
One of the primary dailies we received was a later scene, the place little Leia is placing on her belt. She’s received her holster and she or he places on the gloves and all these issues. In these dailies, she’s on Alderaan. The sensible set was morphed with The Volume background set. The digital units have been already in place.
When you’re footage, you’re not ready on, “We need to composite a quick Alderaan in the background.” We’re not a inexperienced display screen. You’re chopping what it would in the end appear to be, with just a little little bit of VFX cleanup. That was unimaginable to me, since you might get your emotion.
You can simply fear about what you normally fear about within the dailies. You’re on the lookout for the right takes. You’re on the lookout for these little moments of emotion, these little tiny, itty-bitty issues, as an alternative of worrying about, “Do I need to get this temp in so that there’s a background?”
We didn’t have numerous greenscreen, bluescreen stuff. It regarded like they have been there. It was able to go within the dailies. Granted, VFX had a ton of labor to do, cleansing it up and getting these little issues collectively. “That hallway is going to be this narrow, not that narrow,” or “The lighting is different.” They would tweak that infinitely all through. But the units have been mainly laid earlier than you in these dailies. For a Star Wars mission, that’s fairly unimaginable.
Kelley Dixon: The first time we noticed The Volume it was the planet Daiyu. It’s actually large, it’s soundstage dimension. It’s received to be one sq. metropolis block or one thing, proper? I keep in mind we have been squinting as a result of we couldn’t see the top of it.
We stated, “We can’t figure out what’s real and what’s not.” That’s how good the visuals on The Volume display screen are. Then, whenever you get actually near it, it’s numerous little dots. It’s fairly neat.
Josh Earl: Not to say that The Volume can modify the lighting on a dime. Cinematographer Chung-Hoon Chung might put a laser pointer in an space and go, “I want a key light here” and a giant circle would present up, and it will be white mild. He simply put it there so it will mirror correctly, and he’d simply select areas.
Granted, there’s far more in-depth lighting occurring than that. But there have been instances the place he’d say, “I want more right here,” and he’d decide the areas. Then, identical to in Photoshop, the mind belief would make a circle. That circle would act like a large mild that exists on the left panel, which might then mild up anybody who’s over by the precise panel. It’s fairly unimaginable.
MF: Does The Volume speed up your course of, by eradicating sure steps that you just may usually have?
Josh Earl: Maybe a compositing one?
Kelley Dixon: I don’t actually have a solution for that. It didn’t actually change something for me. The previsualization situation is what helps them arrange The Volume.
Previs is essential for budgeting and determining what pictures are going to be and the way we’re going to inform the story. But for that state of affairs, previs is extraordinarily useful for the wants of The Volume and what the background necessities for any shot are going to be.
MF: What concerning the want so that you can do any short-term VFX yourselves?
Josh Earl: We have “previs”, “stuntvis”, and “techvis”, proper? You’re going to have all three of these, simply so we all know what the setup is.
But “postvis” is the secondary half. We had The Volume workforce. Deborah was wonderful. She stated, “Get them in here so they’re next to us.” They have been subsequent to my bay. When we wished to create a shot, Deb would say, “Can you tell them to do this? The ship comes in and then this-and-that. Have them temp out that shot and we’ll see.” So, for a full-shot creation, that was cool.
One factor we had much less of was temp compositing. Our VFX editors have been Steve Rhee and Annie Mahlik, who’re wonderful. Steve would have instances the place he’d say, “Before it goes to Kathleen Kennedy, this blue screen needs to be a long hallway. Can you temp that in with some of the elements from The Volume?”
We didn’t have to do this as a lot. Because The Volume was there, and since it created these large short-term digital units, you didn’t must do numerous temp compositing. We normally put these temps right into a tough lower and despatched them out to folks to indicate, “Hey, it’s going to be fine.” There was much less of that.
There have been instances the place we did temp compositing. In episode 4, we had home windows the place it was all water exterior. In Fortress Inquisitorius, they’re underwater. Those stayed bluescreen for essentially the most half, however that’s as a result of the hallways have been all constructed or digitally there.
Kelley Dixon: One of the opposite issues that have been common bluescreen units have been the rooftops in episode two. Those units have been all in a daily stage, with blue all the best way round. We needed to composite all the pieces there.
Josh Earl: They simply needed to do much less of it due to The Volume. One factor that had a blue display screen, which I practically nerd-melted throughout, was the Imperial Star Destroyer, the place Vader stands on the window. There was a blue display screen exterior the window.
Gioia Caruso, the opposite assistant, and I have been strolling by way of that stage, and the crew was altering one thing. We have been standing there and I stated, “We’ve got these badges. Can we just check this out?”
They stated, “Yeah, go ahead. Do your thing.” So we walked up the hall, walked by way of the pathway to the entrance of the window. I assumed, “Oh my God, I’m going to throw up. Do we want to lose our jobs and we take a picture of this? What’s the deal here? Because I know a droid is going to murder me the minute I pull the camera out.”
So, we stood quietly. I didn’t take out any digital camera. I simply stood on the essential window of the Star Destroyer, simply staring, capturing lasers, however at bluescreen. There was no Volume there.
Kelley Dixon: There was one occasion, I believe it was in the course of the capturing of the massive ultimate battle. We have been down there for one thing, I can’t keep in mind what, and there was the props man who handles all of the lightsabers. It’s fairly attention-grabbing as a result of he had all types of various lightsaber hilts for various cases. They had ones that had the beam on them and lit up.
The crew have been ready for some technical digital camera factor to occur, and any individual handed each sabers to me. I used to be like, “Oh wow!” Then, our manufacturing supervisor, Thomas Hayslip, who does actually large stuff—I believe his title is on Oppenheimer—whipped out his mobile phone to take an image. My first intuition was horrified as a result of I assumed, “You can’t take a picture!”
Then I assumed, “Well, this dude is an executive producer.”
Josh Earl: And they killed him. They simply shot him lifeless proper there. It was insane. He simply received vaporized.
Kelley Dixon: What occurred was, they have been able to roll, they usually took the lightsabers away from me. We by no means received that image. But it was fairly humorous.
To me, the massive a part of the story is that he whipped out a mobile phone to take an image and my first thought was, “You can’t do that! What are you doing?” But I noticed he might do it.
One of the issues I’ll say, and Josh can in all probability discuss extra to this, there’s this one props man who handles all of the lightsabers. He was displaying them to us, and considered one of them was Obi-Wan’s saber, however it was like a canine toy. It regarded like actual metallic, however it was rubber. It squeezed. It didn’t make any noise, however it squeezed like a canine toy.
He instructed me, “When Obi-Wan runs, he has to have it on his hip. You don’t want him running and having this thing smacking against his hip.” It by no means occurred to me that they’d have a prop like that.
MF: I don’t know why I write greater than 4 questions with you two. I do know I’m not going to get to all of them. But there are specific ones I wish to make sure that we get to.
Of course, that’s the finale, the lightsaber duel between Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Vader. There’s a few visible parts that I wish to ask you about.
One is the intercutting. That lightsaber duel is going down whereas Reva is searching younger Luke Skywalker. You’re going forwards and backwards between these two sequences. There are some pure locations the place you may lower, like when Vader buries Obi-Wan underneath some rocks. There’s different instances, mid-action, whenever you’re chopping forwards and backwards.
What are the clues for you, instinctively, as to when you may lower away to that different sequence?
Josh Earl: There was some design, clearly, from Deborah. She knew the place she wished to chop. But visually, it positively modified. We positively lower much less and merged some areas collectively. Some of these have been constructed to be preemptive wipes. The first part of the combat ends with Vader in a defensive stance and Obi-Wan jumps on the digital camera. Then it wipes straight into Reva coming into the Lars farm.
There have been these moments, however then there have been instances the place, coming again into the scene, we’d create a shot in publish. We would take a shot and alter it so it was tremendous large and rocks would come previous, for instance. We talked lots about that shot. There was a second the place Kelley stated, “What if we came through the rocks from way back here?” and we went by way of iterations of that.
Some of the transition factors have been predisposed and a few needed to come out of nowhere, as a result of we merged components of the combat. There have been scenes which may have been shorter at one level and we intercut extra. Ultimately, it was all merged collectively and we needed to create these moments as they got here.
Kelley, even that second you created with Reva smacking the field in half was a transitional level. It was created to start out there, then we lower into the rocks coming down. Now they’re preventing within the distance. That sort of stuff. It was a combination of each.
Kelley Dixon: Originally, the best way that it was written, the intercuts have been somewhere else. When Reva is participating with the Lars household for the primary time, she finally ends up following Owen [played by Joel Edgerton] up the steps, they usually find yourself on a bridge.
We realized that simply wasn’t very thrilling. It wasn’t flattering to have her run and chase him. It didn’t look that nice. So we have been confronted with, “What can we do that’s more dynamic and aggressive?”
Deb stated, “Can you find a shot where she’s just cutting across, and we’ll build it?” Owen had pushed these large canisters down the steps at her and Deborah thought, “We’ll find a shot where she cuts across and we’ll build in postvis.”
We’re Reva, so the field would come from the digital camera facet and she or he would lower by way of it. That was not actual. We discovered a shot the place she sliced down, and that broke the field in two. The cool factor about working with lightsabers is that they create a lightweight path that’s very thrilling and dynamic. We used that to propel us into the flying-through-the-canyon shot. That shot was created as nicely, as a result of that complete factor was shot on The Volume. They can do some wonderful issues. It’s a giant area. They did fly a digital camera.
I discovered lots about what was doable on Star Wars. Deborah would are available and say issues like, “That shot, where the two guys are fighting and the camera is flying through the canyon? Shrink that way down” and I might suppose, “What?” Let’s say that shot was a 3rd of the body dimension when it got here into dailies. Now it’s 1/10 of the body dimension. I used to be confused. But then I noticed, “Heck, we’re creating the rest of the world anyway, so they can be any size we want.”
It actually opened my thoughts to what’s doable, and likewise taught me to not be stymied by the belief that we don’t manage to pay for to create pictures. The complete level is that now we have budgeted to create this stuff. Working on smaller tasks with very, very low budgets is actually useful. It was advantageous to have labored on smaller issues, as a result of I received extremely resourceful. That helps me on greater issues the place you don’t have the funds and nonetheless must make one thing work.
Working on smaller tasks with very low budgets…helps me on greater issues the place you don’t have the funds however nonetheless must make one thing work.
Learning the way to use footage, reverse it, flop it, discover different issues and make them work, it helps. But on greater issues, actually large issues, I needed to discover ways to open my thoughts as much as, “Hey, there’s money. We have money! If you want that spaceship to fly overhead, you can do that.”
MF: As a lot as we give attention to the visuals of Star Wars, it truly is the sound, the sound design, and the rating that makes Star Wars what it’s.
An important instance of that’s within the ultimate battle. Obi-Wan Kenobi will get the higher hand on Darth Vader and cracks his helmet. Then, there’s this wonderful sound design the place we’re going forwards and backwards between Hayden Christensen’s Anakin voice and James Earl Jones’s Darth Vader voice.
There’s some actually cool sound design occurring there. You get to play with that iconic Darth Vader respiratory sound. Tell me concerning the sound design for that scene.
Kelley Dixon: It was crucial to Deborah to provide you with the precise sound. She wished it to be totally different from the opposite Star Wars. She wished it to be its personal factor, but additionally meld completely with the others.
We weren’t allowed to make use of any Star Wars thematic temp rating. It sounded lots like a Star Wars would sound, however that’s extra a credit score to Josh. Josh labored with numerous temp music on this, however we weren’t allowed to make use of the well-known themes.
Every every now and then, Josh and our music editor Nick Fitzgerald would work in just a little little bit of theme and it will at all times get caught. “No, you can’t use that here!”
Darth Vader’s respiratory is certainly one of many methods you can perceive what is going on together with his character. Since he’s received the masks on, all you actually have is his physique motion and respiratory, and just a little little bit of speaking, if he really is speaking. But the respiratory, I believe, is extra indicative in numerous methods. We labored lots with that. As far because the voices, as soon as he was underneath the rocks, that was all us. It took numerous passes. There have been numerous totally different iterations of what was occurring.
We had to make use of so many various Avid instruments to do this. At one level I used to be mixing down sounds. I used compression/growth lots, I used pitch shift lots, I used to be rubberbanding, I used to be doing all types of stuff.
I needed to take that supply, combine it down, put it in, and save all the iterations to every aspect as a result of we had to have the ability to return to the unique and do it once more. That was an enormous quantity of labor.
Josh Earl: AudioSuite, child.
Kelley Dixon: We have been taking issues that Darth Vader had stated in Revenge of the Sith and utilizing them. That was an enormous quantity of stuff.
But the principle reply is, we needed to do all of it within the room as a result of Deb didn’t need any surprises as soon as we received to the sound combine. She wished to ensure that it was all the pieces that she meant earlier than it went any additional.
Josh Earl: We positively recorded a few of the cracked masks. Heavy respiratory was recorded off the masks, the Hasbro masks that they made, as a result of we questioned, “Where is that clean? We have to get that clean.” I simply recorded it at my home and we used it within the combine. It’s a part of it.
Nick Fitzgerald did an incredible job. He did a bunch of results for us. He was wonderful with temp music and we received to workforce up lots. It was superior. He additionally did a few of the distortion stuff, the place the masks crack occurs and you may hear Darth Vader. We didn’t have any of the James Earl Jones stuff but, so it was on a temp combine. Nick helped us create that back-and-forth the place you’re listening to Anakin, after which Vader would slip by way of. That was all predesigned. We put numerous love and time into these moments. We wished to make it sound correct within the temp so Skywalker Sound might take it and make it even higher.
Kelley Dixon: We have been doing breaths and gasping for air. There was one impact that I used to be tremendous pleased with. I don’t know if it seems like what I initially deliberate, however there was one the place I took three totally different items of our samples and I positioned them the place you noticed Hayden Christensen falter.
That’s an enormous quantity of labor that you need to do, to make the entire thing pure. We have been spending a lot time on simply getting the smallest of moments proper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSydx-20rbE
I keep in mind after I put within the one the place Hayden journeys. Deb stated, “Oh my God, that’s so perfect.” Again, it was the place Obi-Wan was underneath the rocks. “What is he hearing?” and “How much is he hearing?” and “Did it fade out?”
I believe one of many large questions at that time is, “What motivates him to get his mojo back and start fighting?” That was a giant factor for Deb. She wished to really feel like he was carried out for.
I stated, “But we know he’s not!” I’m not saying her query was fallacious. I’m saying that’s not the actual essence of all this. We have to be with the character. We have to be absolutely invested at that time.
How, as editors, can we ensure that the viewers is absolutely invested, realizing that he’s an previous man the following time we see him? We know he’s going to win. With stuff like this, the place we all know the reply as editors, it’s our accountability to make the drama be the place you’re invested, despite the fact that . Even if we didn’t know, this present known as Obi-Wan Kenobi. He’s going to make it.
MF: I’m vulnerable to asking editors if, in the course of the course of their mission, they made themselves part of the completed movie. Usually, it’s by way of sound. Josh, being the uber Star Wars nerd that you’re, are you in Obi-Wan Kenobi in any respect?
Josh Earl: Yes. When we have been constructing these episodes for 2, 4, and 6, there have been numerous temp Stormtroopers, there have been some aliens, there was this and that. I used to be temping in my voice in all places I might. Anytime there was like, uji-ka-da-borda, I simply made alien voices. I voiced the Stormtroopers bumping into one another. “Hey, get out of the way!” I did all these issues, all through episodes two, 4, and 6.
I even did the previous nation alien on the finish. The voice I did for him was, “What do you need, kid?” This previous nation man. Ultimately, they solid a rustic actor. That was a victory for me. I don’t care. I don’t must be that man. Otherwise, they ripped my voice out of most of it. You rent voice actors, all that enjoyable stuff.
But at one level, Deb stated, “We have to start swapping out Josh’s voice. He’s in this whole thing. But, Josh, do you want to do a voice?” And I stated, “Whatever, Deb, it’s not a big deal.”
Kelley stated, “Cut it out! He wants to do a Stormtrooper voice,” and I stated, “Yeah, I totally would.” Deb stated, “Okay, pick one,” and I stated, “ I kind of want to be this Stormtrooper that gets killed by Obi-Wan… I want to be murdered by Obi-Wan. What’s the problem there?”
So, we tweaked the phrases, as a result of I had carried out numerous temp phrases. Some of them caught ultimately, which is enjoyable. You know, Stormtroopers are Stormtroopers.
But these phrases, particularly, we went forwards and backwards on. Deb really had Joby Harold write traces for that. “How would he say this? Let’s give him a couple of lines.” So I’ve a few traces after which I’m brutally murdered by Obi-Wan. I can’t ask for a greater second in a Star Wars.
Stormtrooper quantity no matter, I’m that man. I’m the man who will get murdered throughout Princess Leia’s rescue. I’m the one who says, “Hey, what’s going on?” after which I received to do all of the dying noises and that enjoyable stuff.
Kelley Dixon: It’s humorous as a result of Josh would do all these different issues. He might say no matter he wished in our temp stuff. There was one scene the place Obi-Wan was hiding in a hallway. Stormtroopers go by, and Josh is saying issues like, “Hey, do you know what we’re having for lunch? Is it pizza day, or..?” There have been so many humorous issues. I might be working with the scene and simply begin laughing.
I’ve a few traces after which I’m brutally murdered by Obi-Wan. I can’t ask for a greater second in a Star Wars.
At the top of the day, Deborah didn’t actually need the Stormtroopers to be humorous. She wished them to be severe. She didn’t need them to be joking.
MF: If something comes out of this little discuss, it must be the love that you just each put into this mission and the way a lot you really liked working collectively. It was a nerd-melt second for each of you. I’m not going to allow you to off the hook, Kelley. I believe you each actually loved being immersed on this world.
The solely request I’ve is that, within the subsequent interview, try to come out of your shells just a little bit. Okay?
Josh Earl: We’ll attempt to not be so quiet subsequent time.
Kelley Dixon: I believe you bought numerous exclusives. Unfortunately, now we have not been approached a lot till this nomination got here up.
MF: And but you’re so approachable.
Kelley Dixon: People don’t actually know us. Plenty of our associates and our friends know our historical past, however most don’t. I’m glad that we received an opportunity to work collectively. I hope we get to work collectively once more. We’ve remained associates to today.
I don’t suppose we fought in any respect. I don’t even suppose we disagreed. We labored collectively for just a little greater than a yr, perhaps a yr and a handful of weeks on this. It was in all probability essentially the most enjoyable that I’ve had. Working with Josh made day-after-day fulfilling and enjoyable.
And we have been allowed to deliver canine to the set. I had a pet that I received proper after manufacturing ended. He was twelve weeks previous after I received him. Then Deb walked within the room and stated, “I was promised puppies,” and there I used to be with just a little black lab pet.
Deb’s assistant had a two-year-old golden retriever that she would deliver by. Dave Filoni has some sort of Irish wolfhound that his assistant would deliver by, they usually all would run collectively.
We had a giant workplace with only a few folks due to COVID. We had numerous area, and the canine would run. It was a very fulfilling atmosphere. It was considered one of my very favourite chopping rooms.
It was considered one of my favourite chopping rooms in all probability ever, as a result of I had a window. I’m a baseball fan, and my room was at Manhattan Beach Studios. My window was on the very south finish of the lot and it regarded out onto a baseball discipline. There was baseball there all summer time lengthy. I might cease chopping and go watch baseball for a few minutes.
It was a very good expertise in so some ways, apart from being on Star Wars, which was cool in and of itself.
Josh Earl: I second all of it.
MF: It sounds prefer it was a good time. Kelley, when this interview comes out, don’t be shocked in case your opening quote is, “I was promised puppies.”
Kelley Dixon: I didn’t say that! My director stated that.
