Alex Ferrari 0:06
Enjoy at this time’s episode with visitor host Dave Bullis.
The founding father of zero drift 30 is definitely the visitor on this week’s podcast, who’s a screenwriter and founding father of some of the well-liked screenwriting blogs go on his story, which can be the official weblog of the blacklist. He additionally runs. He additionally runs a screenwriting masterclass, and he is additionally an teacher, which we will get into as properly. And then with out additional ado, with visitor, Scott Myers,
Scott Myers 2:05
You know, my guiding gentle by way of most of my life has been Joseph Campbell. And that easy little phrase, observe your bliss, discover that factor that you’re enthusiastic about that you just that energizes you that you just really feel you could have a expertise for. And creatively, I’ve simply all the time performed that. And one of many issues alongside the way in which was I found educating whereas I used to be writing, I am going and do these displays, be invited. And individuals say hey, man, you are actually good at this, possibly it’s best to train. So that began with educating on-line by way of UCLA Extension. And then once we moved to North Carolina, the place I used to be a tv producer for a manufacturing firm there known as Trailblazer studios for eight years, I began educating one class a semester at UNC Chapel Hill, within the writing for screening stage program, which was nice. And then the DePaul University School of Cinematic Arts right here in Chicago, got here to know me, considered one of my colleagues now right here, Brad Rendell, who’s a working screenwriter, and has had 4 films made. He’s now an affiliate professor right here on the program and Chair of our program, screenwriting program, and he bought in contact with me as a result of he knew about my weblog. He was an enormous fan of the weblog. So we began speaking, and it’s extremely, very thrilling issues happening at DePaul. It’s a quick rising faculty with unimaginable amenities, the college has three soundstages that it rents for the scholars on the largest studio system studio facility exterior of Los Angeles in North America. This is similar facility the place all of the Chicago Fire Chicago hope all these exhibits are filmed Empire was filmed there. Lots of films are filmed there. So the scholars not solely get an opportunity to really get arms on expertise making films like instantly, very dry spirit are on the faculty. They have unimaginable gear, and the soundstages and a 3 time grip truck. They are additionally segue into working for these productions for NBC and whatnot. So that mixed with the truth that the school right here is super. The help from the administration is excellent. The faculty is extraordinarily various. Loads of faculties speak about, properly, we need to you already know, we’re going into inclusion we need to various scholar our bodies. Well DePaul truly has that. I imply, my present MFA cohort, the group that is going to be graduating in 2019, that MFA group is 50% non white and over 50% ladies, and it is actually thrilling to work with individuals who have various backgrounds and to have the ability to assist them discover their voice that facilitate their writing course of. So circling again to how I bought right here, it was simply a type of belongings you put your self on the market you do one thing that you’re enthusiastic about and as Campbell says the universe will open doorways the place there was partitions. And the Paul invited me to come back right here and apply for the place. And I bought it. And I moved right here two years in the past, and I adore it. It’s only a super place to be and really thrilling working with these college students.
Dave Bullis 5:17
You know, throughout the, the applying course of that the, you already know, they ask any type of like questions on manufacturing or something like that, like how you’ll deal with one thing? I imply, I think about you, you have been form of, I imply, not nearly screenwriting. So I think about you you form of have your arms. You have been a variety of hats, as I’m attempting to say,
Scott Myers 5:35
Oh, yeah, there have been a variety of hats. And the beauty of the Paul School of Cinematic Arts is that we have eight space of eight areas of focus. So there’s screenwriting, there’s directing, there’s inventive producing, there’s all types of submit, there’s an animation group, that is terrific. So we, we do not have a silo system, we work collectively college students, once more, the scholars are, I had a freshman final 12 months, he was like, three, three weeks. And I imply, all my college students, one on considered one of all my courses, identical to that is vital to do. And I used to be saying, Well, I hope you reap the benefits of your time right here. Because it is, it is actually wonderful that you’ve all these amenities and sources to exit and make these brief movies. He mentioned, I’m already making what three weeks mentioned he is already making one. So there’s a variety of communication between the administrators and the writers. We have conferences each quarter, whereby college students get collectively on this huge group, and so they pitch these initiatives to one another. And it is extremely collaborative factor. So sure, I’m concerned with serving to them with the scripting factor, serving to them with their edits, serving to them with a few of the directing decisions they making as I oversee a few of their thesis initiatives and whatnot. You know, I ought to notice that only recently, the DePaul The Hollywood Reporter got here out with their high 25 movie faculties and the Paul’s 13 in that listing, and rising, clearly the primary movie faculty within the Midwest, we aspire to be greater than that. Variety, we made that listing of the highest movie faculties, so it is a, it is a actually thrilling place to be and we’re having college students go to LA now and shoot some success. So yeah, I one of many causes I loved being right here is that I get an opportunity to put on a variety of hats and work with college students in a variety of other ways.
Dave Bullis 7:28
So, you already know, Scott, you talked about that the scholar that that, you already know, three weeks, and he was already capturing one thing or planning to shoot one thing? Do you ever have the alternative? I imply, is there ever a scholar who exhibits up and, and simply says, you already know, you already know, possibly they begin dragging their ft, or they you need to form of like say, how are you? Hey, are you gonna make one thing? Do you ever had that?
Scott Myers 7:48
Yeah, there are college students who, you already know, and I do not, you already know, I do not denigrate them in any respect. If they arrive right here, and so they simply need to be writers, you already know, or maybe they only need to work in submit, you already know, in visible results. They do not need to exit and, and do manufacturing. You know, having performed a few of that. I believe I agree just about with what William Goldman mentioned when he mentioned, paraphrasing right here, he mentioned, the primary day, essentially the most thrilling day of the screenwriters life as a primary day on a set on a film set, essentially the most boring day within the screenwriters life as a second day within the films. Because it is a variety of setup, however simply ready round for issues, you already know. So I discovered that once I was doing TV producing out within the subject and whatnot, it was okay, I did not actually take pleasure in it that a lot. I actually take pleasure in extra working. So there are college students who I respect that, however then there are different college students who need to be inspired who they’ve a inventive thought and so they’ve bought a superb visible sense of acuity and say, okay, come on. Yes, get on the market. Try it. There’s no There’s no draw back right here. It’s not like, if you happen to make a brief movie, and it stinks, properly, you’ve got discovered lots. There’s issues you could solely be taught however being out within the subject and making films you simply cannot be taught all of it by sitting in a room writing. And so I encourage individuals to, you already know, all my writers that I work with, whether or not it is by way of DePaul, or by way of a screenwriting masterclass or interfacing with my weblog, or going out to those conferences and festivals I’ve been going to extra continuously now, I encourage them to go make stuff. This is a time proper now. Where with every thing happening the second golden age of TV or peak TV, digital filmmaking, the place content material is king, queen, Prince, Duke, no matter, and who’s chargeable for creating that content material for arising with that stuff. And on the inception stage, it is writers and so it is a incredible alternative for people who find themselves inventive and have a great way with phrases and know the right way to write and craft tales.
Alex Ferrari 9:58
We’ll be proper again at Throw a phrase from our sponsor. And now again to the present
Scott Myers 10:08
To try this, after which see if they’ve a directorial outlets that method you possibly can management your materials much more. So, yeah, I’ve college students who run the gamut. You know, I’ve college students that are available and, you already know, a lot of them have, they will identify for you each single shot and a Martin Scorsese film. And I imply, I’ve had these varieties of scholars and I’ve college students who are available who, their mother and father, you already know, have them majoring in economics or enterprise or whatnot, however they’re inventive. And so they arrive in right here and so they can take a double main in screenwriting, a BFA or ba, or, or perhaps a minor, you already know, and to see them gentle up and see them actually develop creatively. And it might be it is solely an avocation for them shifting ahead and never a vocation. Well, that is nice, at the least they’ve found one thing that they are enthusiastic about, and so they have a expertise for and so they can try this and, and have a richer and fuller life.
Dave Bullis 11:03
You know, I assumed you have been gonna say the William Goldman, quote, Nobody is aware of something. So yeah.
Scott Myers 11:09
Well, that is true. I imply, all the time we’re seeing this proper now, aren’t we? Dave? Like, you already know, up till a couple of 12 months in the past, it was like Oh, rom coms are lifeless. Nobody desires to see romantic comedies. Rich, Crazy Rich Asians comes out, increase. Three of them greenlit one week, you already know, a spec scripts Singles Day, the sequel to Crazy Rich Asians and a kpop initiatives in Korea. So you already know, now we’re seeing articles about how Crazy Rich Asians is resurrected the rom com. So individuals once they say this stuff, you already know, they do not perceive the cyclical nature of the enterprise. And and yeah, so I believe that is in all probability true what Goldman says, no one is aware of something.
Dave Bullis 11:57
It’s form of like how zombies have been all the time, you already know, thought of performed out or what have you ever. And then the Walking Dead got here round, and now abruptly, they’re, you already know, they’re cool once more, after which mattress, then you already know, now now it is yet again.
Scott Myers 12:09
Well, I’ll let you know one other factor, as a result of you already know, you already know, me, I observe the spec script mark. And I’ve been monitoring it since, properly, I damaged in 1987 by promoting a spec canine after which actually began in earnest to trace it and 8990. So my weblog, going to the story, you possibly can go and see they have over 2000 spec script offers annotated there relationship again to 1991. And up by way of 2014, not one time, in the whole interval of monitoring spec script mark, throughout the 20 some odd years of doing that was drama. In the highest three, by way of style gross sales, it was all the time Comedy, Action or thriller, all the time. And then for the final three years, the primary style within the spec script market is been dramas. Again, no one is aware of something. So we’re in a brand new cycle right here. And I attempted to interpret that as fairly attention-grabbing. I believe a part of it’s that folks have grown up with actuality TV, a complete technology. And so that they’re used to and fascinated with, quote unquote, actual individuals. And so within the case of historic dramas, they really are like actual individuals, I believe a part of it’s nostalgia, we’re a wash within the salsa proper now. And so once they see an image, you already know, like a script that was on the highest of the blacklist just a few years again about Madonna, or the earlier than that about Michael Jackson informed from the attitude of his pet monkey bubbles, you already know, these kind of historic dramas, they hit their, they hit on, you already know, the the place the reader or the viewer is aware of them. It’s like, nostalgic. And I believe the ultimate factor actually happening there’s simply the studio’s are method into pre branded content material, you already know, they need content material that the individuals will learn about. And so historic figures, you already know, is a method of doing that, as a result of individuals will learn about a determine previously, you already know, so So yeah, it is a it is an enchanting time. We actually is simply an attention-grabbing time proper now. And it is nice to be a creator, in that kind of atmosphere.
Dave Bullis 14:23
So Scott, like what if you happen to learn any, like unpublished or? I’m sorry, unpublished. Have you learn any unproduced screenplays lately which have identical to floored you?
Scott Myers 14:35
Yes. I simply bought performed. Doing my twelfth blacklist characteristic writers lab in LA bought again about two weeks in the past. And there have been six initiatives. And all of them have been actually good. And a few them have been simply would, you already know, considered one of them was like, virtually able to go. I imply, there’s some rewriting they may do on it, however But you possibly can completely see it. It’s a style piece, elevated style piece. And so sure, you already know, there’s there’s nice materials on the market. Now, the spec script market is down this 12 months, and it is in comparison with final 12 months and final 12 months was down, in comparison with the earlier 12 months. And I believe largely that is to the studios. You know, once more, you are simply counting on pre branded content material, franchise materials and whatnot. But I nonetheless imagine this to be true, that if you happen to write an amazing script, it’s going to discover its method. Someone’s gonna reply to that. And so yeah, there’s nice materials on the market, you already know, I’ve bought college students right here, written written scripts that they will have to rewrite them. But they bought robust ideas, nice character execution. So yeah, there’s nonetheless some actually good content material being made. That’s the hot button is simply to put in writing an amazing script.
Dave Bullis 15:59
So let’s speak about that, you already know, if you’re working with, with college students, you already know, what are a few of the recommendation that you just that you just give to those school college students?
Scott Myers 16:08
Well, the very first thing is to remind them continuously that films are primarily a visible medium, there are some who will are inclined to rely an excessive amount of on dialogue to drive the motion, to not say the dialogue is dangerous. It is not. But for sure genres, Action, Comedy, relying upon the kind of comedy, it’s thriller, science, fiction, fantasy, these kind of films actually lend themselves to visible storytelling. And that is the kind of factor that Hollywood does higher than anyone else on the planet, you already know, visible storytelling. And so I remind them that look, for the primary three many years of films existence, there was no dialogue. It was silent movies. Yeah, we had these little intertitles. But largely, it was simply visuals. And in some methods, we’re circling again to that form of paradigm, I believe, as a result of now with the field workplace receipts, revenues 70 to 75% of these generated by the worldwide markets. Whereas a joke, a line of dialogue, the change of dialogue might not translate that properly from, say, the United States to China or Brazil, or Germany or whatnot. Someone slipping on a banana peel and falling on their ass is universally humorous. So that is the very first thing I hammer with them. Like each quarter is, you already know, it is a visible medium, you bought to suppose visually, you already know, everytime you begin to assemble a scene, that is your place to begin, is have a visible storytelling. I’d additionally say this, as a result of, you already know, I keep on high of the enterprise, it is bizarre that I’m in, you already know, I’m extra related now and in Hollywood than I ever was, once I stay two and a half miles east of twentieth Century Fox, due to my weblog, you already know, is is there a number of issues happening, relative to cultural tendencies and technological developments? The technology proper now, the younger Jenner, younger individuals, you already know, up by way of the millennials, however these 18 12 months olds as much as that they’ve seen heard or learn exponentially extra tales than earlier generations, if you happen to contemplate tales to be Snapchat conversations, and textual content conversations, and YouTube movies, that type of factor. And these are tales, you already know, the start center in a lot of them, and they also simply intuitively know, story on a degree that I believe earlier generations do not. So for instance, they do not want as a lot exposition now, as he was, which is why I believe you’ve got seen this shift. Back within the 80s, once I broke in, what’s now what was the top of Act One, then, is now the center of Act One. You simply do not want all that setup, get into the story and get going. And that is one other factor, as a result of younger individuals these days are so used to getting their content material when they need it how they need it. Now. Now, now, that one other factor I attempt to train my college students is get into the story, drop them in, there is a Latin phrase in media res, drop them into the center, simply put them in there. They need that kind of factor. They need to get into the story, they might not even have to know that a lot in regards to the characters. You take into consideration films like x Makena, or Lucy, these couple of films that come to thoughts, you already know, barely something in regards to the protagonist inside two to a few minutes, increase, they’re into the plot. And so I believe younger audiences form of like that.
Alex Ferrari 20:00
We’ll be proper again after a phrase from our sponsor. And now again to the present.
Scott Myers 20:08
Like, okay, so long as they don’t seem to be confused, say, I’m right here with this character, then we’re into the motion, I’m going to search out out all that exposition alongside the way in which that type of lay it out upfront like we might historically used to do. So there are undoubtedly some issues happening by way of know-how and cultural mindset, that, you already know, we should be cognizant of as screenwriters, and I attempt to move that alongside to my college students.
Dave Bullis 20:35
So if you talked about that, you already know, the the, it was within the 80s, the top of Act One is now the center of Act One. Do you type of? So let me ask you this. Let me form of rephrase that. My query. Do you form of suppose like, you already know, normally within the hero’s journey with Joseph Campbell, you already know, there’s, there’s the decision to motion, after which there’s the refusal of the decision? Don’t you suppose that the refusal of that decision typically is usually a little too, is is possibly not wanted? And this is what I imply by that, you already know, if you happen to go to see like a highway journey film these days, you already know that happening the highway journey? So is it actually any have to have a refusal of the decision? Because I imply, hell, then being on the highway, is the entire motive that introduced you into the theater. And you already know what I imply?
Scott Myers 21:17
Well, that is you are elevating an attention-grabbing level they’ve, which is that the attention degree of individuals going into films is such primarily based on trailers, and the inundation of selling. And I believe that does have an effect. So if you already know that it is a highway image, do you really want to spend 25 pages, setting it up? No, you do not. You know, you are simply you are simply gonna bore the the youthful technology, they only, they only need issues, I believe, of their storytelling to maneuver rather more shortly. So by way of the refusal to name, properly, this will get into a much bigger space. And that is one other factor that I hammer my college students on, which is that you have to floor your story crafting course of within the characters. And so, specifically, the protagonist. And so in case your query for you already know, if you happen to have been like a scholar that got here in and mentioned, I do not know whether or not I ought to have a refusal of the decision to journey with this character or not, you already know, I’d say, Well, do not take a look at it from exterior the story universe go contained in the story universe and get to know that character? Are they the kind of particular person that might refuse? Or are they the kind of particular person who would leap on the alternative, you really want to floor the storytelling, and what I name the protagonist, its journey. In truth, I’m engaged on a guide proposal proper now. I used to be approached by a publishing firm to put in writing a possible textbook, by which we invert the way in which we take a look at, I believe, sometimes, or at the least the way in which that form of floats round within the screenplay universe, about the right way to method story construction. So a lot of the emphasis is on plot, and on these web page, counsel, whatnot, which I believe is a slightly wrongheaded method of approaching it. Much higher to go at it. by immersing your self and engaged within the story universe and fascinating your self with all of the characters specifically, the protagonist. The protagonist’s purpose the protagonists need and want, all that stuff, principally, units the backbone of the story. And so how significantly better to come back to the plot by working with the character and decide it is their story? You know, it is their destiny. I name it the narrative crucial. That story that occurs to the protagonist. If it occurred two weeks in the past of their life, or a month from now, it will be a special story. It’s taking place proper now, there is a motive why you kind destiny in at this second with that story. And there is a motive why that character intersects with different characters, the particular set of characters as they go alongside. There’s a motive why these occasions occur. And x one, two, and three, as a result of it is facilitating the protagonist, transformation, that journey. Again, that is inverting the, the the concept, versus wanting on the plot, first take a look at the plot as a method of facilitating servicing and supporting the protagonist transformation. Joseph Campbell mentioned, the entire level of the hero’s journey is transformation. And in order that’s one other huge space that I concentrate on with my college students, we do a ton of labor on character growth. In truth, I created a category right here known as story growth, and we spend a complete quarter working with characters and out of that working up a top level view. So you then transfer into writing a primary draft. So again to your query. I imply, the factor about whether or not there is a refusal, a name or any of that stuff, you need to be aware of cultural tendencies and, you already know, audiences by way of their pursuits and predilections And, however every thing must be grounded in working with the characters so far as I’m involved. I imply, character equals plot. And so let’s put some flesh on the bones there and really make that come to fruition
Dave Bullis 25:12
Is it if you see the scholars are available, and even if you’re working on-line with with completely different individuals, do you see an inclination to do this formulaic type of plot factors?
Scott Myers 25:22
Well, there are some books and you already know them, I will not identify them which can be the, you already know, that which have very particular paradigms. And, you already know, I simply I’ve, I’ve issues about that I’ve issues about that a number of ranges. If you cut back screenplays to you already know, the particular type of web page rely, this must occur right here, and this must occur there. You’re, it is problematic on a number of fronts, one, it demeans the craft. It makes it appear like we’re coping with widgets, versus the inventive effort, and the inventive ability and expertise that is required to put in writing a wealthy story with multi dimensional characters, shocking twists and turns. And all the remaining, you already know, that requires creativity. If you are on the market espousing one thing, then you could have a software program system you could plug issues into, and are available out with a you already know, paradigm or no matter, then that demeans the craft. And that extends to the expertise {of professional} screenwriters working in Hollywood proper now. If your studio government who possibly bought an MBA from Stanford or Harvard, you meet with them. And you already know, they’re supplying you with script notes. And they are saying, Well, I’m sorry, however your act one is simply too late. You know, it wants to interrupt into Act Two and 25. Well, if that is all they know, about story, is that type of formulaic method to screenwriting, then why will we find yourself with so many formulaic script films? It’s due to that kind of considering. So I believe that any try to codify some type of so known as guidelines, or these form of formulation, is admittedly working at counter functions to what it ought to be, which is a real inventive effort. And that, once more, leaning into the characters see the place they take you. You know, it is thrilling to see scripts like a quiet place. Did you learn the script a quiet place? Are you seeing the film? Right? Probably David.
Dave Bullis 27:43
Yeah, I’ve seen the film. I did not learn the screenplay.
Scott Myers 27:46
Well, you already know, it breaks like, so most of the so known as guidelines, I believe it is like 68 pages lengthy. They embrace images and pictures. They fiddle with fonts. I’ve truly interviewed these guys, and so they’re truly coming to Chicago and the top of September for our profession, 12 convention, and gonna be panelists right here, Scott, and Brian. And so that you learn these scripts, and see that there are these inventive decisions being made. And the tales work. You know, they do not match the they do not match the type of formulaic paradigm. So yeah, I’m luckily for me, a lot of the college students I cope with, aside from the graduate college students who might have had extra expertise in, you already know, immersing themselves in screenwriting, the world of screenwriting and whatnot. Most of my college students are undergraduate, and so they have not been tainted by that, you already know, which is nice, as a result of then I can simply cope with them, like, you’ve got seen them, you already know, 1000s of films and TV collection and whatnot. Great. You’ve bought an innate understanding of this. And so let’s construct on that. But let’s begin with characters. Okay, let’s begin along with your characters and see the place they take you.
Dave Bullis 29:08
Yeah, so it is, it is form of such as you’re letting the characters form of lead the plot, slightly than having, you already know, this type of template that is available in, I all the time say these templates like, like coaching wheels, you already know, it is high quality to make use of it if you happen to’re doing like your, your first, you already know, screenplay or no matter. But if you happen to type of hold doing that, you form of find yourself with these formulaic films that we that, you already know, you and I all the time speak about,
Scott Myers 29:28
Well, a few of these formulation have been created again within the 90s. You know, are they related 20 years later? You know, aside from 3x construction, and maybe the concept of sequences, you already know, is there something actually that’s form of sacrosanct by way of the craft visa vie this screenplay construction?
Alex Ferrari 29:55
We’ll be proper again after a phrase from our sponsor. And now again to the present.
Scott Myers 30:04
I do not suppose so, you already know, I believe that, once more, sure, have observe the characters, it is their story they exist, they realize it higher than you do, they’re inviting you to inform the story, they need you to inform the story. So it is significantly better to have, you already know, we undergo these brainstorming workout routines like I, I take my college students by way of, we do six units of brainstorming workout routines, we spend a complete couple of weeks simply doing brainstorming, you already know, neglect any of the assemble building of the story of the primary we’re simply get to know the characters. And so that they’ll do the standard oblique engagement workout routines like questionnaires and biographies. And I’ll have them, you already know, learn a scene simply to form of with the characters and simply get them loosened up. But then we transfer into these direct engagement workout routines, that are nice. It’s like, all proper, think about you are a psychiatrist, and you are going to have this affected person is considered one of your characters. And they have been court docket appointed, they need to see you, and so they need to reply questions. They can’t get out of this except they reply your questions. And so now you progress from coping with the characters and I it relationship, like they’re over there, you are coping with them instantly as an IU. And so I’ll have them do these workout routines the place they interview the characters, then, then they’re going to even get a bit of bit extra into that form of California New Age factor, which is a variety of enjoyable when I’m coping with some college students who’re a bit of bit extra left mind oriented. Okay, so we’re gonna have you ever go right into a room, shut the door, flip off the cellphone, get a bit of paper, and a pad of paper and a pen, or get in your laptop. And I need you to do some deep respiration. It’s like meditation, I need you to deep breathe in and up for a couple of minute or so. And I need you to considering of that character and get into their headspace. And for the subsequent 10 or quarter-hour, set a timer. I need you to blind kind, what are they considering? What are they feeling? And sure, your thoughts will go, Well, I’ve to do that. And I’ve bought to go wash the canine and no matter. That’s simply chatter, let it go. Come again to that character and hold reaching out to them, and attempt to get into their headspace. You can try this as like stream of consciousness. You also can try this as like monologues like, what are they going to say? And so that you simply blind kind. You try this for 10 to fifteen minutes. Now, what you find yourself with, possibly 80% of it’s nonsensical, however 20% of it, no matter proportion 1020 1520 25 40% could be gold, you’ve got like entry that character. Moreover, if it is sort of a monologue, and even simply articulating what they’re considering or feeling, you are beginning to get a way of their voice. And so it’s that bizarre factor I name writing wrangling magic. You know the place you are, you are, you are believing this magical factor the place the characters exist on this bizarre method. And so if you happen to actually imagine that, you then’ll begin to see and listen to them. It’s just like the inverse of that Seeing is believing what believing is seeing and listening to you attain out to them, they would not have appeared to you. And they would not need you to put in writing their story in the event that they hadn’t proven up. But they did present up someway in your acutely aware unconscious or acutely aware life. So attain out to them. And so we do all this brainstorming. It’s nice. It’s actually nice. And I’ve to say, I’ve performed it and I train it to Paul in screenwriting masterclass, I’ve that prep class I began eight years in the past, I’ve performed that, like 30 occasions. That’s the factor that I imply, aside from every thing else they take pleasure in, the writers take pleasure in about that course of. We get by way of that brainstorming, they create this grasp brainstorming listing and so they bought all this content material that they’ve floor 1020 pages of stuff, earlier than they even transfer towards plotting. I get I get compliments about that on a regular basis. Like oh my god, that was such a thoughts blowing expertise. I can not imagine how nice that was rather more in contact I’m with the story, you already know, an additional advantage if you’re in contact with the characters and so they’re alive. And they’re talking to you and also you’re seeing them and also you’re listening to them and you may’t get them out of your thoughts. How rather more motivated are you to put in writing the story? Because you related with them. So yeah, you already know, I preach character lots. I’m sorry, I get off on my soapbox on that. But I simply it is a counteractive to formulaic writing, it is simply working with characters and furthermore, it is simply, I believe the the correct handed approach to do it.
Dave Bullis 34:32
I believe it is form of prefer it provides you want that North Star, that North Star that is form of like that is the place you are going along with your story. Rather than form of making the writing of itself as a stream of consciousness, you already know what I imply? So it form of it permits them to have much more and even simply you already know, anybody doing this usually and as you’d have much more of not the place to go but in addition you form of know okay, properly these are some completely different eventualities or conditions or what have you ever that I’ve lined that I’ve already form of considered out. But earlier than I get to the outlining section,
Scott Myers 35:02
Oh, yeah. And the brainstorming, I inform them do not pre edit. I imply, chances are you’ll be sitting there typing proper right here, this stream of consciousness, and rapidly chocolate milkshake pops to thoughts. You might imagine, Oh, properly, that is simply dumb. No, put it down. Imagine what Orson Welles if he’d been brainstorming and mentioned, snowglobe What’s that? Throw it away? You know, no, grew to become a vital a part of Citizen Kane. So you may have scenes seem, you may have traces of dialogue seem, you may have moments seem, you may have characters pop up, chances are you’ll be engaged on the protagonist character, and rapidly, the Nemesis pops up. Okay, go off and work with the Nemesis. They evidently need to speak to you proper now. Now, that mentioned, you possibly can if you happen to’re working with the protagonist, I believe he is speaking a couple of North Star, the protagonist is your North Star. In most tales. The protagonist journey is what dictates like, just about every thing. It’s why these care of the characters exist. If you concentrate on, for instance, Ron, Ron bass, Robert Towne had that nice query. He mentioned, the most effective methods to know a personality is to ask, what are they most afraid of? Okay. Well, let’s run with that. So what if you happen to work with a protagonist? And you provide you with a solution to that? What are they most afraid of? Right. Clarice Starling in The Silence of the Lambs, most afraid of confessing that horrible expertise she had within the Montana farm, the place she noticed that witnessed the spring slaughter of the Lambs, she grabbed a lamb and ran off with it. She was attempting to save lots of that lamb, however it was so heavy, it was so heavy. She says, Well, if you happen to actually drill down into the psychology of that story, she is that lamb represents her father, she’s attempting to save lots of her father father was slain when she was like 10 years outdated. And so what she’s most afraid of is the boogey man who killed her dad, the random likelihood he opens a door, these guys are stealing a TV increase, increase, they shoot him, and he dies. So, so if she’s afraid of dealing with these, the the associations that she has together with her father’s dying, and people dangerous guys, you already know, with that have within the Montana farm, properly, so what higher approach to create drama than to have her face a boogeyman on the finish? Who was Buffalo Bill? So now rapidly, you’ve got bought a particular psychological connection between your protagonist and your nemesis? It’s not simply generic, that that Nemesis is a projection or bodily realization of the of the protagonist shadow utilizing your personal language. And so Okay, that is cool. Well, you then suppose all proper, properly, so what about allies alongside the way in which? Well, you may meet like a mentor determine or to, you already know, properly, in case of Clarice Starling, that is only a nice you already know, it is simply that that film is like the proper factor for me to show as a result of it is like, matches every thing that hits every thing that I form of imagine about storytelling, mentor characters, Hannibal Lecter, good man for her, not solely as a result of he is tied to the Buffalo Bill case, but in addition as a result of he is a power. And so he is II can completely information her into herself, which is what she must do. If you take a look at the story of The Silence of the Lambs from a meta standpoint, you already know, what’s the narrative crucial? Why does Clarice get known as into the story? It’s yeah, it is the remedy the case of the secure Catherine Martin, however on a private degree, and it is like her psychological journey. It’s the intersect with Hannibal Lecter, and so they try this quid professional quo. You inform me, I’ll let you know issues. You inform me issues Clarice, however not the non-public issues, proper? So you already know, she preferences, do not let him inside your head, increase, she lets her head. And so the mentor helps her go all the way in which down and inform that factor that she does not need to confess, which is the story of the Montana farm. So the if you happen to work with the protagonist, and also you begin considering by way of their journey, you possibly can even by asking the query, my language system, what’s their opening state of disunity? What what are they disconnected from? of their, of their psyche? Their stuff their repressing their, their core of being? Their, their want? There’s once we talked about needn’t have to acquire one thing however have to emerge? What must emerge from inside? Right. Glinda the Good Witch says to Dorothy, Dorothy, you’ve got had the facility to go house all alongside. It’s already there. Ovid says the seeds of change lie inside. And so the character of the protagonist has that stuff inside and it must emerge. So they’re in a state of disunity. They’re disconnected from that, however if you happen to can determine what it’s that should come out, that implies the endpoint unity.
Alex Ferrari 39:58
We’ll be proper again after a phrase from our sponsor. And now again to the present.
Scott Myers 40:07
Positive transformation. Obviously, there are tales the place the protagonist does not have a constructive transformation. So simply by working with the protagonist character and their, their psychological state to depth, you possibly can floor all types of issues. And in fact, brainstorming will assist floor the unconscious stuff that, you already know, can actually enrich a narrative once more, getting off on a soapbox that day, however I’m enthusiastic about these things. You know, I need individuals to put in writing tales which can be vibrant and alive in, you already know, not formulaic. The plot emerges from working with the characters. You know, that is my true ardour.
Dave Bullis 40:46
Yeah, and it is identical to this interview. Like, I’m Chris, Clarice and also you’re, you are form of like Hannibal Lecter. I’ve come to ask you for assist. And
Scott Myers 40:55
I, yeah, properly, I I assumed I did the London screenwriting Festival final 12 months, screenwriters Festival, and so they invited me again. I’m going once more in every week. And I’ll be doing a masterclass and 4 displays. But I talked about one of many displays I did final 12 months, and so they requested me to reprise it this 12 months, is writing a worthy nemesis. And my, my thesis there’s that one of the simplest ways to provide you with a worthy Nemesis is to begin with the protagonist. Again, what? What is inside them? If you ask the query, what do they concern essentially the most, after which put the protagonist within the state of affairs the place they need to confront that concern. That’s simply nice drama. So, however yeah, I believe the purpose is that I perform a little Hannibal Lecter impersonation, however I try this. And some individuals actually preferred that final 12 months. So I assume I’ll attempt to attempt to try this once more this 12 months. So
Dave Bullis 41:49
It’s one thing that any person was identified to me and I can not unhear it. It was I ate his liver with Farber Farber beans. Key Yeah. Yeah. And any person mentioned it is truly KI KI aunty or one thing like apparently he mispronounced it within the film, and I did not even discover it. And I’m like, now now at any time when I hear I’m like, oh, you already know,
Scott Myers 42:09
He says it however I believe he is being ironic. I imply, I believe he purposefully Miss mispronounced that as a result of he’ll hearken to the tang there he goes. With some fava beans and a pleasant Canty, like he is from New York. Yeah, I believe he does form of mispronounce it or no matter.
Dave Bullis 42:27
But, however you already know, I’m gonna have to look at we watch the film and and take note of that half once more. But however, you already know, I needed to know, Scott, I do know, we’re form of pushed on time. But I needed to speak about zero drift. 30. i It’s, you already know, it is, you already know, I needed to interview you once more, earlier than it began. And it is truly beginning in what two days prefers? Yeah, yeah. So two days. So, you already know, may you simply, you already know, take us by way of, you already know, the the impetus so that you can begin zero draft 30 And what it’s for many who do not know,
Scott Myers 42:54
Sure, properly, again in October of 2015, I’ve been engaged on a script challenge and creating it, and it began writing it when one thing occurred within the information that principally blew up the story. And so you already know, I’ve had conditions the place initiatives gotten form of pulled out from beneath me, however this was significantly vaccine as a result of I put a variety of time into it. And so I used to be very pissed off whereas I had this comedy that I’d been sitting in my again burner for a while. So I simply mentioned on my weblog, alright. I have never even labored the story out. I do not know the characters. I do know form of the place I need to go. But beginning November 1 by way of November 30. I’m simply gonna write the script. And it is like, NaNoWriMo. I imply, it isn’t like an authentic thought. They used to do a factor known as script frenzy, however they stopped doing it, I believe in 2013. So I simply invited individuals to do it with me. Well, it bought picked up by indie wire, it was translated into like Spanish and different languages. And I believe we had over 1000 As far as I may inform, type of guesstimate individuals doing that. And we had dozens and dozens and dozens of people that completed the script, any person got here up with this concept of, I name it zero draft. So then they got here up with the concept of zero draft 30, like Zero Dark 30, solely zero draft 30. And in order that grew to become the the moniker for it. The primary thought of zero draft is it is like a pre first draft. So you probably have issues with perfectionism, and you’ve got issues with procrastination, and procrastination, largely is about, properly, I’m afraid that what I’m going to provide is just not going to be any good. So that is perfectionism. Well, it is a smart way. It’s like a blast at that. Because it is all about productiveness, slightly than, you already know, the crunch high quality. It’s about amount pages, not high quality pages, clearly, proper as greatest you possibly can. But the purpose is to get from fade into fade out with the idea that by having performed that, you’ll have discovered much more about your story than if you started, even if you happen to’ve outlined your story. And you’ll have crossed that psychological barrier which you’ve got gotten to the primary draft. And so now you possibly can have one thing to work with As opposed to simply looking at a clean web page. So what occurred was, we did that. And then my principle is, and I all the time inform those that if you happen to’re exterior the enterprise and also you need to break in, you might want to be, clearly, watching films and studying scripts, but in addition writing pages. And so write two specs a 12 months, even if you happen to did one web page a day, you spent a month prepping a narrative, you wrote for 4 months, a web page a day, that is 120 pages, and you then spent a month rewriting it? Well, you possibly can do two spec scripts a 12 months simply by writing one web page a day. So I what I did was on the weblog, we determined to do two zero draft 30 challenges a 12 months, one in September, and one in March, March is definitely 31 day, so that you get a bonus bonus day. And so that they’re principally, you already know, spaced six months aside. And there is a Facebook group zero draft 30 Facebook group, which is a public group, however it’s personal within the sense that you need to be part of it, we now have 3100 members, that is an ongoing factor. You know, it is a terrific group, it’s extremely very like going into the story. It’s all people in there, you already know, understands that it is an actual onerous highway to hoe the competitors is fierce success is difficult to come back by. But we’re additionally optimistic, or additionally we elevate one another up. You know, I form of want this level to myself that look, I used to be fully exterior of the enterprise. I knew one particular person and I wrote my third spec script and bought. So you already know, I can not deny that actuality. It does occur despite the fact that the chances are one. So the zero draft 30 Challenge begins in September 1. And so on September 30, I do a weblog submit each day with some inspirational stuff. We I look, you already know, there’s the hashtags, Ed 30 script. I look there, I take a look at the Facebook group, I take a look at my weblog, I see what individuals are posting each day, I’ll choose any person and provides them an award. It’ll differ. Sometimes it is the Anita unfastened award, who was one of many first nice screenwriters in Hollywood a girl and typically it is grownup and Trumbo award and they also simply get a bit of image with their identify, you already know, on it, and just a bit one thing to inspire individuals, however it’s nice. And we additionally this 12 months, have Harmonic Convergence. I for causes which I can not get into, it is simply too lengthy, however the spirit animal for the zero draft 30 Group is a hamster, known as scamper. We do not go driving sprints we do writing scampers towards like have some enjoyable with this, proper? So we do that factor, we now have performed it, I believe like 30 occasions each first Friday night time or Saturday, you already know, 12:01am, Sunday 24 hour interval, we do what we name a writing scamper a THON. So there are 24 hosts all over the world every hour of the day. So that you already know, you simply choose a day, choose up, choose a time slot, you are going to know that any person goes to be there to usher you into your hour and congratulate you on spending that hour writing. The level of it’s to get individuals to put in writing on weekends. And the purpose of that’s to get individuals to put in writing each day. If you get writing each day, that turns into a behavior and also you’re extra productive. So it simply so occurs that this September problem beginning September 1, at 12:01am. I’m going to launch the subsequent 24 hour scamper a THON. So individuals are , they will go to the zero draft 30 Facebook group, simply look that up towards super group of individuals there, we bought some fantastic moderators who oversee issues and there is no we do not enable anyone to advertise any consulting providers or any contests or any of that stuff. That’s like a very advert free stress free zone. It’s simply individuals who, you already know, need to help one another and assist one another and, and, you already know, writers teams kind off that, you already know, personal writers teams, or individuals will say, I’ve some pages and I’ll learn pages in change for you studying pages, you are able to do that offline. So But now, let’s examine what draft 30 It’s the zero draft method. There are there are skilled writers who do that. There’s a Scott Fraser 5 or 6 years in the past, bought on Twitter someday and mentioned I’m gonna write a draft in 24 hours. And he he commented alongside the way in which in, in on Twitter. And he did he wrote that draft in 24 hours, it was an actual tough draft like 60 pages. But that grew to become a film. He wrote the script and bought it and it grew to become a film. So there’s actual worth within the zero draft method. And significantly if you happen to’re a perfectionist, and also you are inclined to procrastinate.
Dave Bullis 49:34
Do you already know what that film was known as? That he
Scott Myers 49:39
I may look it up. He’s been off Twitter for fairly a while, however I’ll need to look it up. I can electronic mail it to you.
Alex Ferrari 49:49
We’ll be proper again after a phrase from our sponsor. And now again to the present.
Dave Bullis 49:58
Okay, yeah. I simply did it. That’s truly fairly attention-grabbing, Scott. But why, you already know, I’m truly going to compete in will compete. I’m truly gonna take part. Yeah, and nil draft 30 Because you actually do not compete towards your self. But however however, you already know, yeah, I need to take part this 12 months, I attempted to do it final 12 months and I simply form of fell off the wagon. I assume I do not, I simply gotta it form of fell off the rails. And so I’m gonna take part this 12 months, I bought that helpful dandy calendar out, proper? And I used to be like, oh, yeah, that factor’s superior. So whoever made that the, you already know, nice adverts. Great work.
Scott Myers 50:32
Stephen Dudley did that he is one of many zero draft 30 members. And so if you happen to go to my weblog, I’ve weblog posts all this week, prepping individuals for the problem. And you possibly can see, there is a doubt you possibly can obtain this, this glorious calendar, the place you possibly can simply fill in each day. There’s a bit of motivational issues in there and whatnot. So
Dave Bullis 50:51
Yeah, and I’m gonna hyperlink to all that within the present notes. Scott, simply, you already know, all of the issues that we have talked about. So, you already know, simply to type of, you already know, put a interval on the finish of this complete dialog. Scott, is there something you needed to type of add in conclusion?
Scott Myers 51:04
Well, simply that, once more, reinforcing the purpose that the chances are lengthy, you already know, astronomically lengthy to have the ability to make a residing as a author. And but individuals do. You know, there, there’s good to see that the the variety of individuals within the characteristic movie facet of issues, in Hollywood in 2017, there was an uptick within the variety of individuals, fairly substantial one, in order that you already know, that it’s attainable to work as a author within the enterprise. But past that, simply if you happen to pursue your ardour, you already know, if you happen to’re inventive, and you do not give voice to that, and you do not pursue that, that is such a loss for you, and maybe the universe. But if you happen to do pursue it, you already know, you then’re placing your self in alignment with some genuine a part of your self. And, you already know, once more, observe your bliss. It’s simply, it is extra than simply three phrases, it is like a elementary factor. Can you think about this world with 8 billion people who find themselves every of them, in a position to pursue the factor about which they have been essentially the most passionate, the factor that enliven them, you already know, what a spot this could be. So I simply encourage individuals to, do not take into consideration the chances. Don’t take into consideration something different than simply what it’s that excites you, if you happen to’re a inventive particular person and pursue it, whether or not it is an avocation, no matter it’s, you already know, woodworking, portray, poetry, kite flying, try this, as a result of it is simply going to have an unimaginable profit for you. And you may know, on the finish of your life, you already know, you’ll say, I remorse not doing that, you’ll have performed it. And so observe your bliss, as I all the time, all the time say, that is, it is profoundly vital perception into life.
Dave Bullis 53:08
Yeah, it is, you do not need to stay life with remorse, or, you already know, we form of look again and say, Why did not I try this? Or what went incorrect? You know, why did not I Why wasn’t I ready to do this? Then, you already know, and, you already know, I agree fully Scott. And I believe that is a good way to type of put historical past on the finish of all this. We’re going to search out out on line, Scott.
Scott Myers 53:28
Well, there’s my weblog, go into the story. You know, that is primarily based on a bit of anecdote I’ve with my youngest son, he was about three on the time, and I used to be joking with him whereas I used to be overseeing his tub. I mentioned, Well, you already know, my dad, your dad’s going to put in writing us retailer tomorrow new script, and you’ve got any recommendation for me. And he appeared up at me with out hesitation mentioned go into the story, and discover the animals, which I simply thought was nice. And in order that’s my weblog, go into the story. It’s not 10 years outdated, launched in May 16 2008. It’s the official screenwriting weblog of the blacklist, there are 24,000 posts there. It’s covers principally, every thing you possibly can presumably think about. You can observe me on Twitter, go into the story and go into the story. I believe I’ve 51,000 followers at this level, however the very energetic feed, they’re all screenwriting and writing and inventive, you already know, oriented. Also, there’s the zero draft 30 Facebook group, which I began again in November of 2015. And terrific neighborhood of individuals there. And then the DePaul University School of Cinematic Arts if you already know anyone. Oh, I ought to I’ve to say today. I bought to let you know this. We only recently beginning courses there in September 6 would be the first BFA and MFA a set of scholars for comedy, writing and movie writing together with this Second City, we partnered with the second metropolis, which is the premier improv group. You know, it has been round for 50 years. And so DePaul University has partnered with the Second City and we’re now providing the world’s solely to my information, BFA and MFA applications in comedy writing and filmmaking. So the scholars get to really go to the second metropolis web site there and work with these unimaginable college that they’ve, who’re simply phenomenal academics relating to comedy and an improv. They truly work with them on the Linkin Park facility over there. I stay 5 blocks from there. And then additionally they work right here at our DePaul University taking courses. So they’re getting they’re getting an schooling, however they’re getting an schooling by which they will find yourself with a portfolio of content material and an unimaginable expertise. creating their comedy chops from identical to high to your college in each worlds, the improv and sketch world after which the screenwriting and writing world so so DePaul University School of Cinematic Arts is the place I’m. And I believe that is in all probability just about about it by way of the way you get in contact with me. Oh, I can I need to point out one different factor. If you are within the UK, and also you’re listening to this, I’m going to be on the London screenwriters pageant from September 7 by way of the tenth I imagine it’s, or seventh by way of the ninth, sixth to the ninth, then I’m going to be in Cologne, the primary week of October Cologne, Germany for a two day masterclass. And then I’m doing a keynote deal with for his or her movie pageant. And then I’ll be on the Austin Film Festival on the finish of October. And then if you happen to’re in France, I’m going to be in Paris in March of 2019 for a 3 day workshop there too, so do much more of such a factor.
Dave Bullis 56:49
So I’ll undoubtedly hyperlink to within the present notes. And as a result of Scott, I believe I believe the UK is just like the third greatest listener base this podcast, so Alright, so Whoa, I believe that is a superb signal. So, however I used to be gonna hyperlink to every thing you mentioned within the present notes,
Scott Myers 57:06
Great to have a dialog with you once more, Dave.
