Ahsoka editors Dana E. Glauberman, ACE, James D. Wilcox, ACE and Rosanne Tan, ACE labored collectively for the very first time to assist convey to life the story of Anakin Skywalker’s former apprentice. Although not one of the three describe themselves as consultants on the Star Wars universe, it’s their items as storytellers that led Dave Filoni to belief them along with his newest entry within the saga.
Set after the autumn of the Empire, Ahsoka follows the previous Jedi knight, Ahsoka Tano, as she investigates an rising menace to a susceptible galaxy.
In our dialogue with the Ahsoka editors, we discuss:
- Cribbing Kurosawa’s Kagemusha
- Representing the viewers within the reducing room
- Pressing pause on Pittsburgh in VFX conferences
- Dialing up Dune for the sound design
- Ahsoka Tano and The Shawshank Redemption
Check out The Rough Cut podcast to take heed to this interview.
Editing Disney’s Ahsoka
Matt Feury: The very first thing you see while you watch Ahsoka is one thing very acquainted, but in addition very totally different. For the primary time within the Star Wars TV collection, we do see that acquainted opening crawl from the characteristic movies, however as a substitute of being in yellow and crawling backward into house, it’s crimson and scrolls on a traditional 2D aircraft.
Dana, that is now your third Star Wars collection, starting with The Mandalorian after which The Book of Boba Fett. Dave Filoni was behind all of those. Did he say how he wished Ahsoka to both be totally different or much like the collection that got here earlier than?
Dana Glauberman, ACE: Honestly, no. I don’t bear in mind having any conversations with him about that particularly. The crawl is one thing fascinating that Dave got here up with within the reducing room. I’m positive he had it in his thoughts lengthy earlier than. He’s good that method. We wished that crawl to really feel just like the characteristic movies. But I imagine the standard 3D crawl that flies away from the digital camera is saved for the options, so the 2D crawl from the underside up is the place we landed.
MF: By this level, you and Dave simply have an understanding. You don’t have to speak.
Dana Glauberman: Exactly.
MF: Rosie, you’re the just one with each Lucasfilm and Marvel expertise. Even although they’re each beneath the Disney banner, Lucasfilm and Marvel are very totally different studios. How would you examine and distinction the workflow of a Marvel collection like Hawkeye versus Ahsoka?
Rosanne Tan, ACE: I can solely converse to the initiatives I’ve labored on. For Ahsoka, we did much more prep on the Marvel facet. The editors have been introduced on after the previs was performed. We have been introduced on good earlier than manufacturing. I began Ahsoka in January, so it was about 5 months previous to manufacturing and we have been doing quite a lot of prep work. We have been a part of the digital storyboarding with the administrators, Dave, Jon Favreau, and the DPs. That was a complete new expertise for me. It was a lot prep work. It was nice to see how all the pieces began on the script degree. Then, we constructed each episode with our previs and we obtained to see them come alive in full sequences.
Marvel did previs nevertheless it was reduce by any individual else and it was just for large motion sequences. But on the Marvel facet, we did quite a lot of postvis. After issues have been shot, we might ship sequences out to The Third Floor. We labored with The Third Floor on Ahsoka too, for previs stuff. Those are totally different workflows and I fairly loved each of them. But the prep work was fairly nice.
MF: James D. Wilcox, are you up for a bit trivia sport?
James D. Wilcox, ACE: I’m, at all times.
Dana Glauberman: James at all times will get the enjoyable questions.
MF: He does? Well, he’s the one one who can reply this, as a result of it’s about him. Your first credit score, imagine it or not, is one thing referred to as Science Fiction: A Journey Into the Unknown, which is ironic since you’ve barely reduce any sci-fi or superhero stuff. You’re acknowledged for dramatic, largely dialogue-driven exhibits. Knowing that, inform me about getting this job and the issues out of your credit or your expertise that you just suppose may need performed into why they wished you for Ahsoka.
James D. Wilcox: That’s an fascinating query. When I first began, I had no concept I might ever get the chance to work on Star Wars. That’s the dream for a lot of editors. But that first science fiction present reality-based. It was a clip present that in the end went to The Paley Center for Media (beforehand often called The Museum of Television & Radio).
It was fascinating. I’ve at all times had an curiosity in science fiction as a child, however I hadn’t been capable of maintain that curiosity in my profession. I did quite a lot of different issues alongside the way in which, at all times attempting to develop and be taught and do extra in comedy and dramas and sometimes options. I’ve to inform you, Matt, on each present that I work on, I at all times discover that have pays itself ahead.
I began in comedy after I did Journey Into the Unknown. Then I went into drama and all types of procedurals and initiatives that have been extra action-based. I used to be in London ending up Thirteen Lives after I obtained a name that Lucasfilm had some curiosity in me from my agent at UTA. They wished to speak to me about Star Wars and I stated, “Let’s set that up right away because I’d love to work on it.”
Rosanne Tan: I’ve a bit James Wilcox trivia. James, who did you see alongside the way in which that you just labored with once more on Ahsoka?
James D. Wilcox: Kevin Kiner. Kevin Kiner and I labored collectively nearly a decade in the past on Hawaii 5-0. I assume, within the totally different paths in our profession, he went in direction of Star Wars Rebels and The Clone Wars. I had no concept that’s what he was doing. I went on and began doing extra premium streaming exhibits and options, after which we got here again collectively on this. It was pretty to work with him once more and see the expansion that he’s had in his profession. Dave Filoni actually depends on him. It was a reasonably particular expertise.
MF: I wager it was. Dana, it is a comparatively new crew to you. For the previous two Star Wars collection you had Dylan Firshein, Jeff Seibenick, and Andrew Eisen alongside you. Being the veteran of the crew, do you’re taking it upon your self to do something particularly to assist onboard your staff? What do you do to assist acclimate them to the workflow that you just’re most likely fairly used to by now?
Dana Glauberman: We had some early conversations. Rosie got here on earlier than James. When Rosie got here on, we had quite a lot of conversations in regards to the previs course of. We talked about any questions that Rosie or James had, however we have been nonetheless working from residence, so we have been distant from one another. Just a little bit too distant.
We had loads of conferences and conversations alongside the way in which. I used to be capable of assist out anyplace that I may. I completely love working with Rosie and James. This present has been such a enjoyable trip, consistently bouncing concepts off of one another and one another’s work once we can. We didn’t have entry to one another’s episodes, so it was a bit bit harder in that respect.
James D. Wilcox: When you began, Rosie, I’m positive Dana gave you what she may at that time that can assist you get going. Then, after I began, Rosie gave me what she may to assist me get going. It was fairly a special expertise. As Rosie talked about earlier, we had previs and the VFX conferences and the workflow of all of it, and I needed to get to know the names and faces and what the expectations have been.
When I got here in, these two have been totally up to the mark, so I might hear, “Oh, Richard Bluff will do this and this person will do that.” I didn’t know who everybody was as a result of we by no means had a contact sheet that stated, “This is this person, this is the supervisor for this.” You develop to be taught it rapidly. Rosie was capable of assist me get settled into my workflow. And for no matter Dana was capable of cross on to Rosie, thanks. Rosie, thanks once more for that.
Rosanne Tan: You’re welcome. In the start, we have been all simply on Zoom. It was all about getting the hold of issues. When I first signed on, I needed to speak to the assistants as a result of we needed to do quite a lot of radio cuts for the totally different episodes. Also, Dana, at the start it was the 2 of us serving to one another out with the previs. The prepare had already began rolling, so we have been simply serving to one another out.
Before James began, I used to be serving to out on one of many episodes that he took on because the precise present. But I used to be serving to with the previs. It took quite a lot of teamwork, quite a lot of speaking and serving to one another out.
MF: On the opposite facet of that coin, other than Dana serving to you each out, you helped yourselves out. This is figure that’s constructed on Star Wars Rebels and The Clone Wars. Do all of you’re taking it upon yourselves to return and watch these collection? Because it’s such a deep, complicated universe when it comes to the characters and their backstories.
Rosanne Tan: I feel the three of us can agree that we aren’t essentially the most educated within the Star Wars universe.
Dana Glauberman: I second that.
Rosanne Tan: We’re storytellers, however so far as the Star Wars universe, I’ve watched the flicks rising up and I might watch no matter new factor that may come out. I’ve watched The Mandalorian, which I preferred. I can’t say that I do know precisely what the background of each character is.
However, if we have been on a name with Dave, he would give out issues for us to analysis. For instance, in episode 5, he talked about Kagemusha or Akira Kurosawa and all his films. I might do the analysis for that and watch these films earlier than beginning episode 5. But I wouldn’t know what a creature known as on this film or that film, or what planet. I’m nonetheless studying that stuff.
Dana Glauberman: I’m too!
Rosanne Tan: But we might know no matter was vital for our present.
Dana Glauberman: As you stated, Rosie, we’re storytellers, so I feel there are totally different challenges alongside the way in which with something that we work on. Whether or not we’re followers of sure characters or sure films or franchises, we’re nonetheless employed to inform an excellent story. I feel we’re all storytellers in our personal proper and we are able to convey that to the desk.
“Whether or not we are fans of certain characters or certain movies… we’re still hired to tell a good story.”
James D. Wilcox: When I used to be in London, I obtained a little bit of a cheat code from Jude Babcock about which episodes of Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels have been going to be crucial to observe. My son had been following the collection as nicely so after I had questions on it, I might ask him. I might work my six days per week on Thirteen Lives and are available residence on the weekends and cram as a lot as I may.
When I used to be interviewed, I used to be very candid. I’m positive Rosie and Dana have been too. Dana, they have been already accustomed to you as a storyteller, however this was my first dip into Lucasfilm. I used to be very clear about, “What I can offer you on balance is the storytelling.” I went to Ron Howard, who had performed Solo, and I stated, “Ron, I think I’m going to take this job. I’m a little concerned that I may not know as much as I need to.” Ron goes, “Don’t worry about it. They don’t expect you to have an encyclopedic knowledge of the entire Star Wars catalog. What they want for you are your instincts, your storytelling ability.”
On stability, it really works nicely. We usually are not beholden to something that’s happening. It has to make sense to us first. We signify a certain quantity of the viewers who might not have seen all of the earlier episodes of Clone Wars or Rebels. In that perspective, now we have newcomers come on board and perceive the basics of the drama that we’re attempting to inform. And Dave Filoni trusted us all along with his characters.
MF: I’ve performed interviews on The Mandalorian, The Book of Boba Fett, and Obi-Wan. It didn’t happen to me till now that you just solely ever have one set. You’re within the Volume or within the Stagecraft digital set.
I had assumed that you just couldn’t work on multiple episode at a time. But there was a current interview with Rosario Dawson the place she stated, “We filmed in tandem the whole time. It was a six-month shoot and it probably would have been a year had we not had two different crews filming multiple different episodes at the same time.” So you do have two crews working collectively, someway, with that one set. How does that work and the way does that have an effect on you as editors?
Rosanne Tan: It’s quite a lot of planning. I feel that’s why there’s a lot prep concerned earlier than capturing. Get all of the episodes down, get the previs laid out, after which they’re capable of play. For instance, throughout manufacturing, we have been upstairs and we may come down each time they wanted us. They had tandem units going and I feel that’s nice as a result of I might be getting dailies on sooner or later, Dana and James can be getting dailies on a special day, and we have been simply centered on our episodes. We have been getting issues performed to our totally different deadlines.
Dana Glauberman: Along these strains, I simply need to stress the truth that we have been primarily reducing these episodes 3 times. Each episode is reduce 3 times. The previs is reduce and so they’re planning the backgrounds as a result of quite a lot of preparation and planning goes into what goes up on the Volume wall. We have to chop previs after which we reduce throughout manufacturing after which we’re working with the administrators and producers and Dave, so we’re reducing every episode at the least 3 times facilitate all.
“We were essentially cutting these episodes three times.”
James D. Wilcox: I might say there’s even a fourth cross that we do earlier than we even get to previs. We have desk reads that are available from the forged. We have to do this radio reduce so you will get a way of the rhythm and the dynamics of what’s happening with the actors and the characters. Then we’re capable of give that over to previs in order that they have one thing to work in direction of. Otherwise, they’re form of guessing at what they’re doing. If you add that cross, it’s like a fourth cross.
MF: How do you are feeling about speaking about some scenes from the collection? You should say sure.
James D. Wilcox: You can see that we’re all educated very nicely by Lucasfilm to not overstep our boundaries.
MF: You know, a staple of many Star Wars movies and exhibits are the lightsaber duels, however not all duels are created equally. Dana, I’d like to check and distinction the duels that you just did. In episode one, you’ve got Sabine Wren (performed by Natasha Liu Bordizzo) and Shin Hati (performed by Ivanna Sakhno), two less-experienced lightsaber fighters.
It looks like the way in which you narrow it was looser with extra wides and you can really feel that they have been less-experienced fighters versus a duel you probably did between Ahsoka and Baylan Skoll (Ray Stevenson). Faster cuts, extra angles. Your cuts assist make the battle look extra actual, and extra harmful to cowl up any doubles that got here in to do stunts.
Tell me about these two totally different approaches. Sabine and Shin usually are not Jedi Masters. They’re simply beginning out. Did you’re taking a special strategy to how you probably did for Ahsoka and Baylan?
Dana Glauberman: Episode one was directed by Dave Filoni. Episode 4, which has the Ahsoka and Baylan battle, was directed by Peter Ramsay. The protection that I had was drastically totally different as nicely. Both have been shot by Eric Steelberg, however the angles that I needed to work with have been very totally different from one another. I take what’s given to me and go off of that. The choreography of all the pieces was spot-on spectacular and all of the actors and stunt doubles educated like loopy to present us what we’d like.
“All the actors and stunt doubles trained like crazy to give us what we need.”
I’ll reply the Ahsoka-versus-Baylan first. It’s so unhappy to do not forget that Ray Stevenson is just not right here with us anymore. Baylan is such a drive of nature and his choreography was rather more highly effective and the protection that I had confirmed all of that. But the Shin-versus-Sabine lightsaber battle on the finish of episode one was a bit bit much less so. Lots of it was deliberate in the course of the previs stage, so I adopted together with that.
However, I used to be capable of throw in a few totally different angles. Working with Dave, my first reduce was most likely loads totally different than the way it ended up as a result of they have been a lot slower of their performances. We needed to pace issues up a bit bit by way of little tips of the commerce. We used visible results, we reduce out frames or whatnot. But they gave me what I wanted to place what now we have on display.
MF: Besides the lightsaber duels, so far as set items go, Star Wars additionally has its dogfights in house. But at times it has an awesome chase sequence. You have the speeder bikes and The Empire Strikes Back, or Anakin’s pod race in The Phantom Menace.
Rosie, you get to have quite a lot of enjoyable in episode seven with a sequence the place Ezra Bridger (performed by Eman Esfandi) and Sabine are operating with the Noti. They’re these strolling turtles that sound like Jawas and act like Ewoks.
The Noti, Ezra, and Sabine are being chased by bandits. Like any chase, you’ve got beats inside it. There are bits of comedic or expository dialogue or an insert of a selected little bit of motion between characters. How do you go about constructing that sequence? Do you begin with these beats that I discussed after which fill within the extensive pictures, or do you’re taking a extra linear strategy from the start to the top?
Rosanne Tan: You take into consideration what the trigger and impact is. Dave is at all times speaking about trigger and impact. We had the pictures in previs, so we have been attempting to work out, “This band is chasing after them. Are they going to shoot at the Noti? Who’s going to shoot first?” We deliberate it out that method.
Lots of occasions, when the dailies got here in, it was simply the pod and the blue display. We would split-screen it and do the sound design and inform the story that method, simply to see how all the pieces was laid out. Then, we’d insert the moments the place Ezra and Sabine had their line or two, once more, centered on the trigger and impact.
Between that, earlier than we get any pictures from VFX or the distributors, we lay within the stuff from the previs. That’s why the previs stuff for giant chases is so vital to have. I can’t create a turtle sitting on a pod. We want these pictures and we have to put that in. We’re additionally temping sound design and music after which displaying passes to the director and Dave. That’s normally how sequences like that work.
MF: Dana talked about how highly effective Baylan’s character is, and it’s true. There’s quite a lot of battle with that character. When the Great Mothers imprison Sabine in episode 6, she protests to Baylan, “Hey, we had a deal” and his response shot exhibits that he has regrets about reneging on that deal. In the subsequent scene, Baylan and Shin have an prolonged dialogue about his previous and his expertise with the Jedi being raised on the temple. Every character has their motivations to disclose, however his character appears to be much more than that. Can you inform me about managing the way you handle to present the viewers an excessive amount of or too little with this character as a result of he’s so mysterious?
James D. Wilcox: Ray made glorious decisions. I’ll simply begin there. In the dailies that I obtained, there was an emotional complexity to what he did with Baylan that I by no means anticipated. Sometimes while you’re reducing tales which have villains and heroes, they are often very one-sided and it’s very clear that the villain does this, the hero does that, he wrote.
With Baylan, there was complexity and integrity, an inside wrestle that nearly felt like a non secular quest. He was struggling internally with what his mission was in life, his larger calling, the best way to discover that, and the best way to get there. I feel it was one thing that was so emotional that he may by no means fairly clarify that to Shin in a method that she would imagine it. He knew what he was after and he or she simply needed to belief him. I feel the point of interest of that belief grew to become, “Are you going to honor what you told Sabine?”
“Sometimes when you’re cutting stories that have villains and heroes, they can be very one-sided.”
We because the viewers by no means knew what he was going to do, which made his character so incredible. There was by no means a predictability to his journey and what he meant to do and what his means to an finish was. You obtained the sense that each a kind of characters had their very own agenda by the point they hit Peridia. I feel that uncertainty is actually what made these characters rather more complicated and fascinating.
MF: I need to comply with up on working with Dave Filoni as a director. I imagine simply Dana and Rosie have been capable of work with him as a director, so I assume this query is for you. Does having him be the author and director make the entire course of extra environment friendly? He is form of the wellspring that each one these items comes from.
Rosanne Tan: First of all, he created Ahsoka with George Lucas, so he is aware of precisely what their agendas are and the place all the pieces is and the way all the pieces is laid out. He’s additionally an encyclopedia of Star Wars. I feel he is aware of what he desires. Of course, once we’re working with him, we strive various things, however he’s the individual that’s in the end going to determine the way it’s going to be.
Dana Glauberman: That’s precisely what I used to be gonna say. He is an encyclopedia of Star Wars. It was like I used to be in Star Wars college with him. You get little bits of data each single day. He wrote all eight episodes of Ahsoka and he knew precisely what he wished. It’s a real collaboration between us and him and all people else concerned, and that’s a part of the rationale why I completely love working with him. He’s enjoyable. He provides us a tough time, he jokes round, however he additionally has a transparent imaginative and prescient of what he desires the present to be.
“If we saw it differently, there was never an objection to us being able to present another version.”
James D. Wilcox: Dave is obvious, however he’s not closed. He allow us to take some daring swings on some alternate cuts for the story as we understood it, for people who find themselves attempting to narrate to this materials, who aren’t hardcore followers. You need to hit all ranges of fandom and introduce new folks to the collection. Dramatically, he would permit us to do issues, whether or not they have been small trims or scene deletions, or what have you ever. If we noticed it in another way, there was by no means an objection to us having the ability to current one other model.
Dana Glauberman: One hundred %.
James D. Wilcox: His stability of collaboration is great. He’s an excellent chief, however he’s additionally an awesome listener. He listened to what we felt as storytellers. He listened to the place we wished to take a scene or how a beat may go. You’d should voice it early sufficient as a result of, clearly, these pictures are all designed. There are quite a lot of visible results concerned. If you had an concept you then wanted to talk it early, whereas there was nonetheless time to think about that concept and have it transfer ahead with the visible results division.
Rosanne Tan: Episode 5’s title is “Shadow Warrior”, which stands for Kagemusha. It’s Akira Kurosawa’s work. That was Dave’s inspiration. I bear in mind getting that episode. I used to be nervous as a result of there have been quite a lot of dream sequences.
Dana Glauberman: No stress.
Rosanne Tan: Yeah, no stress! I knew it was going to be Dave directing, so I did quite a lot of analysis. I downloaded temp music. Before we even obtained to Kevin Kiner, we did quite a lot of temp music and sound design and all the pieces simply to current our cuts. It was quite a lot of stress and I wished to do an excellent job.
I watched all the pieces by Akira Kurosawa, simply to see the place the inspiration would come from and simply strive various things. I do know it’s not cutty. It’s about attempting totally different angles and seeing how samurais can be. It was actually scary at first, nevertheless it was a lot enjoyable as soon as I used to be capable of current it to him. I noticed that he preferred it. I believed, “Okay, great!”
Dana Glauberman: You can work one other day.
Rosanne Tan: Yeah, I can work one other day. But it’s at all times like that each time we current one thing. We put a lot time and work into it. We simply need it to be good. It’s at all times nerve-wracking at first.
“We put so much time and work into it. We just want it to be good.”
Dana Glauberman: Showing a primary reduce is rarely enjoyable.
MF: The visuals usually get the eye with regards to Star Wars, however I feel the signature of the franchise is the sound. James, you bought to do quite a lot of enjoyable sound design stuff in episode six. You’re constructing on the work that the godfather, Ben Burtt, did. But you’re additionally creating a brand new language and including to that and making new sounds. Things just like the Great Mothers’ voices, Captain Enoch and the Night Troopers’ voices. The Bandits of Peridea had an nearly Tusken Raider sound. For the sound design, are you drawing from the Ben Burtt library and modifying it? Or are you creating issues out of entire material? How does that work?
James D. Wilcox: It’s a mixture of what can use from the library and what’s new. We don’t need it to really feel too much like what’s been used within the library. It’s a model new collection, it’s live-action Ahsoka. You need it to have its alternative to come back to life. It wants its distinctive signature and sound.
The Nightsisters, for instance, spoke in unison with this whispery, floaty form of have an effect on. I didn’t do not forget that as a lot after I watched Star Wars Rebels and Clone Wars, however I had watched Dune lately. The Bene Gesserit had an identical trend of talking. I believed, “You’re never going to get that right until you get Skywalker Sound to take over.”
We went by way of a number of variations of what Captain Enoch would sound like. We had Wes Chatham are available and do his factor after which I despatched it off to Matt Wood. He gave us again 5 – 6 examples of what Enoch may sound like. I reduce all of them in on totally different tracks and offered them to Dave.
Dave stated, “We can get rid of two, we’ll keep three and five.” We went ahead and close to the ultimate combine, we simply selected one. Mostly, that was Dave’s determination. I felt like if we may get it down to 2 or three decisions, these two or three decisions are strong. But it’s his desire as to what it’s going to sound like. That’s going to be the inspiration going ahead.
Episode six was a reintroduction in some ways. It was nearly a second pilot episode in the course of the collection. You are world-building. You’re introducing the Noti and also you’re introducing Howlers and Grand Admiral Thrawn’s look. There have been a lot of alternatives to reset and introduce the planet and all of the issues that have been new and distinctive to Star Wars, simply to freshen it up.
Finding and discovering these voices was quite a lot of enjoyable. We drew some sounds from the Tusken Raiders. Dave really stated, “Let’s make the Bandits sound somewhat like Tusken Raiders.” That was ok to get us by way of his reduce. We forwarded that over to Matt Wood after which we may nail what these characters seemed like within the ultimate combine.
Rosanne Tan: The sound design half is quite a lot of enjoyable once we get to do it on our facet. But then to see what Skywalker Sound does is superb. Kudos to Bonnie Wild, Matt Wood, and David Acord and their staff for making superb sound. These guys have a relationship with Dave Filoni. They’ve labored collectively on earlier Star Wars initiatives, in order that they know precisely what to counsel or pull from. To see their work come alive is fairly unimaginable. You get the chills. You know there are issues you could most likely pull from, nevertheless it’s at all times going to sound higher as soon as Sky Sound takes their cross.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E99Et5mzxv0
MF: Dana, by this level you’d suppose I’ve requested you each query I may about Star Wars, however I don’t suppose I’ve requested you this one. I imagine Dave Filoni obtained to voice Chopper the droid. Are any of your voices on this collection?
Dana Glauberman: My voice has not been utilized in any of the Star Wars initiatives. It has been utilized in a few the opposite films that I’ve labored on, however to this point not but. Hopefully someday quickly.
James D. Wilcox: I snuck in a temp voice that Dave requested me to do. He hated it afterward and gave me grief over it. It was the Tusken Raider scene when Sabine is combating the Bandits of Peridea. There have been a number of strains that he had written and so they have been simply guttural utterances of issues. One-word responses.
I reduce it and processed it, attempting to not have it sound like my very distinct voice. Then he heard it and he goes, “Back up for a second” and I feel, “Okay. Here it is. It’s coming. How heavy is it? How is the dump truck gonna be?” He simply gave me such grief over it. Eventually, I simply took it out. I believed, “Okay, Matt Wood and Bonnie and those guys will take care of it. I’m going to remove myself from the process.”
Dave cherished giving us quite a lot of grief as soon as he actually obtained comfy with us. It was quite a lot of enjoyable working with him, actually, quite a lot of enjoyable. The proven fact that he and I are each from Pittsburgh, made us immediate, quick mates and colleagues.
Dana Glauberman: Didn’t you must cease carrying your Pittsburgh sweatshirts in some unspecified time in the future?
James D. Wilcox: Yeah, as a result of our VFX conferences would get derailed. We would discuss these items which can be very native to Pittsburgh and you can see everybody else on the Zoom simply form of fading away. I might simply cease speaking as a result of nobody’s going to inform Dave, “Let’s move on” however they’re giving me the stink eye. They stated, “You should stop talking about Pittsburgh. Then he will stop talking about Pittsburgh and we can have our meeting.”
Rosanne Tan: Going again to the voice factor, it’s been eliminated for the ultimate product, however I didn’t need to hear myself once we have been doing the temp cuts. I’m simply not a fan of my voice.
Dana Glauberman: Same.
Rosanne Tan: But we did voice quite a lot of the Noti in temp. For instance, my assistant editor Caroline Wang was a Noti. Dana’s assistant editor John Rocke was a Noti. I feel all people helped out. We have been fairly good in regards to the bizarre Noti sounds. I’m simply glad we took all of it out as a result of Matt Wood and all people put the right sounds in for the way a Noti can be. But for temp, I heard myself and stated, “I’m okay with being a Noti throwing a rock for now.”
Dana Glauberman: For now, not everlasting.
Rosanne Tan: No. I didn’t need to say something as a result of Dave would most likely give me grief and say, “Take it out” or one thing.
James D. Wilcox: Rosie, you probably did give me a temp as soon as of one of many witches.
Rosanne Tan: Oh yeah.
Dana Glauberman: You did?
Rosanne Tan: I did.
MF: James, may you ship that over?
James D. Wilcox: Rosie gave me a temp one time for one of many witches and we have been capable of reduce that in. Because we’re hypersensitive to our personal voices, oftentimes we might ask folks across the workplace to do it. Some of the standings would give us ADR too. It would work fairly nicely. Occasionally, you get one which that they had no context for and also you simply go, “Okay, how do I tell this person who’s being very helpful that that’s not the help we need?”
Dana Glauberman: There was loads of that happening.
Rosanne Tan: I do not forget that so nicely.
MF: While we’re nonetheless speaking about sound design, I don’t suppose I counted a single Wilhelm scream. Am I slipping and I missed one? Or did you determine to present Wilhelm a break for as soon as?
Dana Glauberman: I don’t like to make use of that. In episode 4, we might have taken it out for the ultimate, nevertheless it was in there for a very long time. There’s one when Sabine and Ahsoka come operating down into the sphere to battle with the guard. Ahsoka makes use of the Force to tug a guard over after which pull him again. I’m fairly positive we had a Wilhelm scream in that. I don’t suppose we saved it in for the ultimate, nevertheless it was there. It was carried over for a very long time.
Rosanne Tan: I don’t like to make use of it. My assistant Caroline is aware of how a lot I care in regards to the sound. I might simply have her do her temp ADR. We would do quite a lot of grunts and screams. We would rope John Rocke in. He is actually nice at temp voices. I feel he temped quite a lot of stuff for us. Same with James. Agustin Rexach would assist out too. We have been a staff. Everybody was serving to out the place we would have liked it. It’s enjoyable to document screams in your home and put it within the background.
“It’s fun to record screams in your house and put it in the background.”
Dana Glauberman: Everybody works a bit bit in another way. I depend on my assistants to do all of the sound work as a result of I need to deal with the story and performances. Not that different editors don’t. They do an awesome job with that too. But I put all of my time into that and I preserve my assistants concerned. Sometimes I throw them a bone and permit them to chop.
John Ott was incredible. He was an enormous assist as a result of he is aware of Star Wars. He was my assistant on this, however I additionally gave him loads as a result of I used to be specializing in the pilot with Dave. I used to be falling a bit behind on episode 4, so he ended up reducing loads, and he obtained a further modifying credit score for that episode, which was nice. I depend on my help to do all of the sound work. I do tweaks right here and there, however early first-pass sound work, I give it to them.
Rosanne Tan: We simply had an awesome crew throughout. From Caroline to John to Agustin and in addition our VFX editors. There’s Richard Sanchez, Steve Jacks, and Michael Struk. Every time that we would have liked all palms on deck, all people was prepared to leap on board. That’s the good factor. Even on the opposite facet, we don’t actually take care of the VFX staff facet. There are so many assistants on that facet. So many individuals. This venture is so large and we had an awesome staff throughout.
MF: The factor with the Wilhelm scream is, it’s form of playful. Ahsoka is a bit darker, in comparison with a present like The Mandalorian. But there’s a scene that I felt was an outlier, in a great way. When you introduce Sabine, the music is a bit playful and the scene is a bit jokey. It’s a bit awkward. Then you’ve got a rock monitor taking part in when she is outrunning the house cops. It’s a really totally different scene tonally than the remainder of the collection. I simply wished to know, Dana, have been you pondering, “How far can I go to make this a little broader, a little funnier than maybe the rest of the series is?”
Dana Glauberman: Dave really had a really clear imaginative and prescient for the way he wished that scene to play. That is actually shot-for-shot how we reduce it in previs. What was the identify of the tune that we used initially throughout previs?
Rosanne Tan: Magic Carpet Ride.
Dana Glauberman: Yes, we reduce it initially to Magic Carpet Ride and it was so laborious to get that out of our minds once we handed it on to Kevin. He was like, “How am I going to score this? That’s such an iconic song” however he ended up collaborating with Ludwig Göransson, Deana Kiner, Kevin and Sean Kiner. They introduced on one other staff to do the vocals for that.
To reply your query, Dave was very clear on how he wished that scene to play. That was one of many first ones that we completed and it carried on from previs to the ultimate reduce.
MF: There are some themes and motifs which can be legendary inside the Star Wars universe. Do the three of you attempt to lean into that while you’re temping? Do you utilize John Williams or one thing evocative of Star Wars? Or do you particularly steer clear of that?
James D. Wilcox: I do know what we’re doing with these scenes and the homage to it. In episode three, the house battle is similar to the ditch run in A New Hope. I’ll take heed to the older scene to see if it performs into what I’m at the moment engaged on, however we wish the brand new present, the brand new characters, the brand new motion and dialogue and scenes to actually come alive on their very own.
I tended to steer clear of the older movie scores. Sometimes I may use one thing that was much less featured, one thing that was extra of simply an underscore. But if it was a significant second, I normally tried to steer clear of it. I attempted it and Dave would say, “Let’s not use that.” That’s what your instincts would counsel, proper? It’s like one other venture, so it’s possible you’ll need to attempt to temp with that. It is sensible. But then generally I might reduce it in and Dave would go, “I don’t really want to use that. Let’s look around for something else.”
In episode six, “Far, Far Away” I attempted to have a homage and it simply didn’t really feel proper. Finally, Dave stated, “The scene is working, but let’s try a different piece of temp in there.” I got here up with one thing else that appeared to be the right tone. We had a dialog with Kevin Kiner and we nailed down what it was that we would have liked to do. I feel we additionally had some dialogue in Episode eight about using the Force theme and when it could be most potent to make use of it. We got here up with a spot to make use of it and it labored nicely there.
We’re not attempting to run away from something that was pre-established. We need to have enjoyable. Going again to the speeder bike chase, I bear in mind after I began early on, Dave quoted George Lucas and stated, “George always said that the Star Wars universe has its own character. But at the end of the day, make it fun. Just make sure it’s also fun.” With that in thoughts, everytime you reduce one thing you need to go, “Yeah!” Whether it’s heart-pounding or cheerful, you need to make it possible for the viewers is having fun with the fabric as nicely.
“George always said that the Star Wars universe has its own character. But at the end of the day, make it fun. Just make sure it’s also fun.”
Rosanne Tan: I agree with James on that. I like temping music. I might strive various things. In episode 5 I used to be temping with Toru Takemitsu’s film Rising Sun. There are quite a lot of drums in there, so I used to be experimenting with that. I didn’t essentially consider Star Wars. Ultimately, Dave did have a dialog with Kevin Kiner, Deana, and Sean, then they in the end picked moments to again the John Williams Star Wars music.
It looks like James and I have been doing our personal temping and Dave would inform us if he didn’t like one thing. Then we might strive one thing else. But I used to be temping with Johann Johansson or Hans Zimmer or simply various things. I used to be asking myself what felt proper for the scene. Every scene is totally different, each episode is totally different, so it was nearly discovering what felt proper for that episode.
Dana Glauberman: Sometimes, if Dave didn’t like what we put in, he would have one thing particular to make use of. He would counsel a cue from a very totally different film or counsel one thing that he had been listening to whereas he was writing that impressed him. We would put that in as a substitute.
James D. Wilcox: By the way in which, Matt, Dave had a few misfires too.
Rosanne Tan: It’s not attainable!
James D. Wilcox: Look, it’s the inventive course of, proper? You strive one thing and that brings you nearer to what to not do. Then you begin dialing it in from there. That’s simply a part of his openness. Have an concept, have a plan, however be versatile.
“It’s the creative process, right? You try something and that brings you closer to what not to do.”
Dana Glauberman: And there’s no dangerous concept.
MF: There isn’t any strive, James, there’s solely do. You know, Star Wars can get loopy in a great way with all of the intercutting. You can have as much as three scenes taking part in out on the similar time, like in Episode seven, Rosie, the one you probably did. You had Ezra and Sabine combating off Shin and the Bandits. At the identical time, Ahsoka is coping with Baylan. Then you’ve got Morgan Elsbeth and Thrawn (Diana Lee Inosanto and Lars Mikkelsen) watching the battle from the ship.
Rosanne Tan: And Huyang flying the T-6 shuttle.
MF: Inevitably, a kind of scenes ends and its characters transition into one of many different scenes. In the finale, you’ve obtained Ahsoka dueling with Morgan and Sabine, and Ezra is attempting to cease Thrawn from escaping. It’s a frenetic tempo and it’s a lot to handle as an editor. What is your strategy to that? Do you narrow every of these sub-scenes as its personal sequence after which reduce the sequences collectively? Or do you’re taking a linear strategy and construct from starting to finish?
Rosanne Tan: I’ll reply for episode two. We had quite a lot of large intercuts when Ahsoka was combating Merrok, after which additionally coming again to Hera and Chopper. Episode 5 is a bit totally different. Five is extra of a dream and in seven now we have quite a lot of backwards and forwards.
When Ezra and Sabine are combating, earlier than we reduce to Baylan, I reduce that multi functional piece. Later on, you may see the place issues may be okay and suppose, “That makes a good transition.” When Dave noticed one thing he would say, “Oh no, this is a better transition” after which we might try this. When I might current my reduce for the primary time, I might attempt to say, “Maybe this is a spot to hit.” You additionally need to comply with the script. Sometimes you need to do the script after which, if I had an alt, I might say, “What about this idea?” That’s how I might strategy it.
James D. Wilcox: Same for me. The solely distinction is, when the dailies are coming in, you must reduce what you’ve obtained. After you’ve gotten sufficient of it and also you’ve obtained your present, then you will get inventive on the place to make these inside cuts work finest.
Dana Glauberman: I at all times reduce to the script. As , scenes are shot in a special order than they’re scripted. As James stated, you narrow what’s given to you first. I at all times preserve to the script after which, typically talking, I’ll throw out some concepts. Once the director, producers, and the showrunner begin working with us, we collaborate to get to the place these inside cuts are.
MF: I feel now we have a theme right here. You take what you get and also you give it your finest. I’m hardwired to search for Easter eggs after I’m watching a Star Wars movie or TV collection. When I went again and watched Ahoska for a second time, an Easter egg popped out that I by no means anticipated to see. What the hell have been The Shawshank Redemption Easter eggs?
Rosanne Tan: Oh, in episode one?
MF: In episode one you’ve got Clancy Brown, who performed the sadistic guard, Captain Hadley, in Shawshank. He performed Governor Azadi in Ahsoka. I caught that the primary time as a result of Clancy Brown is fairly straightforward to choose up. But in the event you return and watch episode one once more, there’s one other Shawshank Redemption character, Mark Rolston, who performed the equally sadistic inmate Bogs. He was Captain Hayle. Of all of the Easter eggs I might look forward to finding in a Star Wars venture, The Shawshank Redemption may need to be absolutely the final.
Dana Glauberman: That’s hilarious.
MF: Did you guys discuss that in any respect? Did Dave say something about that?
Dana Glauberman: No.
Rosanne Tan: I introduced up my solely Easter egg earlier. I spotted, “Hey, that was Kevin Kiner and James Wilcox. That was my solely factor. That was separate from the precise Star Wars universe.
Dana Glauberman: We by no means talked about it.
MF: That’s superb. Working Shawshank right into a Star Wars present is sort of a feat. If you speak to Dave, see in the event you can work in The Green Mile subsequent season. That can be superior.
Dana Glauberman: Done.
