IFH 726: Story$elling Your Screenplay with Heather Hale

Alex Ferrari 0:31
I’d wish to welcome again to the present returning champion Heather Hale. How are you? All are you doing? How are you? I’m good. I’m good. Thank you for a lot for coming again. You are a busy bee. So now you are again along with your we’re gonna speak just a little bit about your second e book story promoting however you had been unique company on indie movie hustle in Episode 240 speaking about how you can work the markets.

Heather Hale 3:38
Numerous enjoyable. Thank you. Yeah,

Alex Ferrari 3:40
completely. And you had been a giant hit. Lots of people like to like that episode. So once I heard about your new e book, I used to be like, effectively, we bought to have Heather again to speak about this. Because if I only for my very own private I simply have so many questions. I’m dying to ask. So for for individuals who do not know who you’re and did not take heed to that first episode. Can you inform us just a little about about how you bought into the movie enterprise?

Heather Hale 4:02
Yeah, so I’m a author, director, producer, movie and tv and I’ve about 5 damaged tales as a result of all people has to interrupt in and re break in and actually break in so me bout to do my subsequent one. Yeah. So I suppose my huge break in was the braveness to like, which was a 5 and a half million greenback lifetime unique film that Vanessa Williams, Stacy Keach, Gil bellows and Diane Carroll was in. That’s the massive one.

Alex Ferrari 4:27
I bought you.

Heather Hale 4:28
I did a bunch of different little issues like a pair PBS collection that received Emmys and way of life journal that I’m nonetheless doing. It’s a TV speak present that received some tellies and Ace awards and simply a number of I did numerous infomercials, commercials commerce

thrills, you title.

Alex Ferrari 4:49
So you have been hustling? You’ve been hustling?

Yes, certainly.

So Alright, so let’s speak just a little bit about promoting your tales. How do you How does one effectively, what recommendation do it’s a must to develop a marketable story or screenplay a undertaking?

Heather Hale 5:07
Well, that is a loaded query is,

it relies on the place you are at within the course of, it relies on the place you are at in your profession, it relies on the type of undertaking. So that is a reasonably broad query. But it is, in fact, a query all people has. So I feel an enormous a part of it’s understanding what your idea is, and understanding who would purchase it. And who would watch it. So what are your distribution channels? Is it a restricted occasion collection? Is it a contained thriller? Or an indie characteristic? Is it you already know, an indie characteristic? Is it one thing might be a one hour drama, comedy sketch comedy? What What is that this monster that you just’re promoting? And then who’re the probably consumers or the prospects that might be contenders for financing distribution attachments, actors, administrators, who’re the individuals that might come on board as a part of that daisy chain that get the momentum going to get it pushed up the hill? I, I feel I stated this within the final time, I really feel like Sisyphus, the octopus is pushing like eight rocks up. That’s how I all the time really feel. But it is I feel it is, it is with the ability to determine what the gymnasium the idea is, and who’s going to care? Who’s going to care sufficient to fund hundreds of thousands or pay 12 bucks, like who’s gonna care and need to see that? And how do you get it to them, and what’s one of the simplest ways to pitch it to them.

Alex Ferrari 6:26
And that may work just about on nearly any degree. I imply, even when it is a small micro price range movie, you are simply pitching it to someone who you need to work for little or no on the flicks, it might be a dp, it might be an actor that you just need to deliver on board, it might be anyone. Or it might be your cash,

Heather Hale 6:41
shoot of their restaurant, otherwise you need them to donate Gatorade, like no matter.

Alex Ferrari 6:47
Yeah, it is all it is all a part of the identical factor. Everyone all the time thinks that it’s a must to promote your story or promoting your tales, or your undertaking is all about hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands of {dollars} and getting you already know, Steven Spielberg to govt produce. Yes, there are these however extra probably, it is like happening to the native pizza joint that you just speak to on a regular basis, like, Look, that is what I’m doing. And getting in these expertise that it’s a must to type of construct

Heather Hale 7:09
a restaurant after hours, would you give us a extremely whole lot in your cameras? Whatever you want, beg, borrow, steal all the things and getting that star to return for at some point? You know, no matter it’s, it is, it is pitching it in the perfect mild potential and angling it in order that your method technique is acceptable for whoever it’s, no matter it’s, you are asking for, from whoever that prospect is?

Alex Ferrari 7:31
Well, let me ask you a query. When I began, once I first began my very first quick movie that I did, I turned it into type of like I used to be a no person with no, no actual background aside from taking pictures just a few commercials. This is years in the past. And I used to be making an attempt to place collectively a small quick movie, which was going to be round at $1,000 for movie in Florida. And I made it into this sort of I even at that is the this e book, in fact wasn’t out there then. And numerous these ideas would not even talked about again then. But

Heather Hale 7:57
I used to be I wanted to learn it 20 years in the past.

Alex Ferrari 8:01
Yeah, precisely. I’d have cherished to learn this 20 years in the past. So however what I did was, you already know, as a result of I used to be like I’m a no person from nowhere. And I bought to place collectively a group to make this film. So what I did is made it type of like an extravaganza, within the sense, prefer it’s a extremely huge bold motion movie with numerous visible results. And I began getting art work commissioned to make it look good. And as you begin increase an even bigger an even bigger factor than it was I used to be treating it prefer it was an x males film. You know what I used to be I used to be treating it like a extremely huge price range film, though it is a small film. And that attracted expertise to the piece as a result of no person else in my space was doing something this

Heather Hale 8:35
motion is actuality.

Alex Ferrari 8:37
Exactly. So is that type of a superb level, as a result of I do know lots of people listening may need a brief little quick movie or just a little micro price range movie, and to type of create this sort of buzz about it and type of create like, I need to be part of that craziness.

Heather Hale 8:50
Yeah, I feel, you already know, everybody needs to be part of the following great point everybody needs to not have missed out. It’s like that FOMO worry of lacking out for those who had been the one who, who did not get that chance. I’ve a good friend who was subsequent door neighbors with Bill Gates. And when Bill Gates was a child, he requested him for $4,000 to purchase his first laptop and he stated no. So you already know that all of us have the e book. I used to be simply listening to the Jim Patterson masterclass. And he stated 39 individuals turned down his first novel. And the reality is, are these 39 individuals flawed? Maybe. But 39 people who find themselves supposedly professionals within the trade missed the boat on being the writer for James Patterson. So you want individuals to assume you are the following huge factor and even for those who’re not the following huge factor like the new ingenue or no matter, that that undertaking could be within the Spirit Award worthy Sundance buzzworthy is it going to be such as you have a look at distributors and naturally distributors need to see an inventory expertise, however in addition they like to see a superb secure and ensemble of stable expertise the place they know that the the bar of appearing capability goes to be raised to that degree or that the deep Or the costume designer, whoever the important thing key division heads are, that these are rock stable individuals. So for those who can create this ensemble round you that you are the weakest hyperlink within the constellation, you are going to have the ability to pitch the energy of your group and type of attempt to parlay some traction off of that. Everybody’s communal efforts,

Alex Ferrari 10:22
is it? Isn’t it true that like, I’ve seen so many, and I’ve carried out it myself, so many initiatives pitched round, you already know, actually excessive finish. beneath the road individuals like actually wonderful editors, actually wonderful DPS. Riley. Yeah, they’re, they’re actually fast. But that offers you want, as a younger filmmaker, or an inexperienced filmmaker, they’re like, Look, I’ve the imaginative and prescient. But these are my craftsmen. These are the people who find themselves going to execute my imaginative and prescient. So not less than at minimal, you already know, it’ll look and sound and look good. And in order that’s make traders and even studios, generally, relying on what sort of studio it’s a little bit happier, proper?

Heather Hale 11:00
Yeah, you have surrounded your self with people who find themselves going to just remember to ship good high quality. And similar factor along with your, for those who’re an actor, or an actress making an attempt to jot down your self a task and put up the cash and purchase your self the roll. You know, that could be a technique that works for many individuals, encompass your self with the perfect of all the things, you already know, make, you already know, let your self be the weak, I all the time assume you need to be the weakest participant on the bench, you already know, then your sport is all the time raised to the gamers round you. So simply be sure you get the perfect you possibly can safe after which pinch your coronary heart out of have a look at all these nice individuals that you just could not have afforded. But I’ve bought at this scale, as a result of all of them need to assist me. And it is a matter as effectively, that once you land that one actor, or that one key particular person beneath the road, they’re those that no person needs to be the primary to the get together. So yeah, similar factor with cash. No one needs to be first cash, and so they all need to be first cash out. It’s robust. You know, you possibly can usually get second and third cash, however who’s the primary soar within the pool?

Alex Ferrari 12:03
I do not know if that is even authorized or not. But for instance your mother and pa are going to spend money on your in your corporation. Can you simply say we have now traders already, we have already got cash and do

Heather Hale 12:10
that on a regular basis. I do know somebody who has half 1,000,000 and she or he informed me behind the scenes, it is Mom and Dad, you already know, no person can it is confidence. It’s simply all smoke and mirrors, you already know, and it is not simply smoke and mirrors. I imply, you need to you need to deal with anybody else’s cash prefer it was your individual. And you are going to deal with mother and pa’s cash as a result of that is not so that you’re in retirement or your individual inheritance. But it is your mother and father. So I feel you simply you need everybody to know that you just honor the fiduciary relationship that you’ve got and that you will do the perfect you possibly can in each division and each factor and make everybody have religion and confidence in you and you bought a pitch and pitch and pitch your coronary heart out each which method.

Alex Ferrari 12:55
Now let’s speak just a little bit about screenwriters as a result of I do know screenwriters sadly have the worst the worst luck to need to pitch their their wares. And many instances they do not have these visible stimulation, or movies or ripple, maddix or any of these issues. What are the most important errors you see screenwriters once they’re pitching their scripts? Well, I

Heather Hale 13:16
have numerous concepts for that. And I additionally assume that instances have modified. So they used to say do not use any key artwork, once you’re pitching a screenplay. That’s kind of true kind of not true. We talked about this within the different e book, how you can work the markets, however mainly do not use shitty key artwork. Right, as a result of most of what comes is terrible. So it is okay to make use of key artwork. It’s additionally okay to show down the 12 college students who need you to make use of their key artwork and use nothing. As a author I labored on initiatives the place I used to be a choose of a bunch of competitions, and the individuals got here in and what the author the creator pitched verbally and on the web page was so a lot better than the chintzy price range that they might swing for some trailer or sizzle reel like you already know, do not do not if it is not implausible. Don’t give that as a result of your phrases ought to have the ability to see your author that is we count on you to be a implausible author. The reverse is true as effectively. I’ve seen a number of slick, lovely excessive finish advert company high quality pitch decks and sizzle reels the place the concept wasn’t good. Write the story wasn’t there, the characters had been no good. It wasn’t contemporary wasn’t unique. So individuals can see by that. So as a author, simply write the perfect stuff you possibly can. So then past that, you should use issues like you do not have to have a photoshoot. You can use issues like unsplash.com and there is a ton of others that is free photographs. So simply get the picture that captures some lovely photographer who’s carried out it free of charge and given it to you. Also, you should use any picture you need in a pitch deck, proper? It’s not going you are not promoting it. It’s not essentially going on the web. Even if it goes on the web, it may be password protected. So You can seize photographs off different issues. And that is, you already know, one other factor individuals can do what’s referred to as a rip ematic. Instead of taking pictures a brief movie and modifying your proof of idea to your characteristic movie or your TV present, seize photographs of ala stars with the type of manufacturing worth you are wanting to speak, after which simply do a voiceover that type of unifies it was telling your story. And they know that the Brad Pitt that adjustments even to Will Smith, that adjustments to whomever that that is the character we’re monitoring, then they’ll visualize in your thoughts’s eye and an inventory actor with that type of manufacturing worth. Or don’t fret about it, simply have it written, you already know, on the written web page or seize photographs, I’ve carried out issues the place, wherever the set is, possibly it is Martha’s Vineyard, possibly it is the Wild West, you seize photographs that conjure that sense of place and time and that mill you. And then don’t fret in regards to the actor a lot. I’ve a undertaking the place we have now an ensemble solid, and naturally, we have now whoever the hottie of the week is female and male, proper? whoever they’re, I’m not gonna say who they’re as a result of they appear dated. But your veteran actors, a few of your character actors, these are a few of the anchors that you already know, possibly you are going to stunt solid a cameo for a day or two. So possibly in your fantasy, you get Frances mcdorman and Kevin Costner. Alright, cool. And then we’ll solid whoever the celebrities are, you already know, however these are the anchor which might be going to let you already know the caliber of appearing concerned.

Alex Ferrari 16:24
Yeah, I’ve edited many a rip ematic in my day for purchasers, the place it is it is a type of a, it is an artwork type, to start with, but additionally so much. But it is, however it’s additionally one thing that not many individuals even find out about. It’s not a really recognized factor, or diplomatic the place I actually would go to, you already know, seven and Fight Club. And I’d as a result of it was a darkish thriller esque factor. And I’d simply seize photographs of Brad Pitt and I truly carry Brad Pitt by a number of films, within the trailer. And there’s numerous these type of issues like these pho trailers on YouTube now that I did do for enjoyable. But

Heather Hale 16:58
on my web site, so I’ve Heather Hill comm ahead slash story promoting. And I’ve rip ematic examples. And any that you’ve got, that you just I’ll put tons extra up there. So I maintain making an attempt to place issues which might be good examples. So and there are many when the fo ones are implausible, as a result of for those who’ve ever seen the trailers that take one thing just like the shining and switch it into romantic comedy, Oh, these are the perfect, proper? But have a look at what it teaches you about photographs and juxtaposition of photographs and music and lighting, such as you’ve lightened it as much as a unique coloration palette, and all of a sudden, it is not the shining anymore. Or you’re taking some you already know, Wes Anderson factor and make it gritty, movie noir ish. Like, that is how one can change what we predict the style is, and who the target market is. So I speak so much about in each books, reverse engineering out of your comps, your movie and tv examples which might be related, or which have the identical sensibility or similar target market. And what are you able to study from their taglines from their key phrases? And are you pushing the boundaries in distinctive and attention-grabbing methods? Are you? Are you colliding concepts in order that what comes up is contemporary and in your wheelhouse actually particularly? And I feel all of those advertising and marketing supplies, whether or not they’re on whether or not it is a pitch deck, that is like a PowerPoint, whether or not it is a proposal in Microsoft Word or PDF, whether or not it is a sizzle reel, or rip, ematic, no matter an animatic. All these issues are simply to speak the concept’s in your thoughts’s eye to type of emulate the viewing expertise to your prospect.

Alex Ferrari 18:27
Now, are you able to inform all people, we simply need to go down the road? What is a pitch deck? So for those who clarify to individuals what a pitch deck is strictly?

Heather Hale 18:34
Well, I’m I feel that is all altering on a regular basis, as a result of we have now a complete technology of scholars who could not edit, what, 2030 years in the past. I imply, it is simply it is a complete completely different world. And so we have now a really visible multimedia savvy, social media savvy technology, plus veterans which have been within the enterprise for a very long time and have carried out issues another way. So I’m unsure that anyone is aware of this precisely. But within the e book story promoting particularly I actually tried to say, this is what a synopsis is, this is what a abstract is. Here’s what a logline is, you are going to hear a ton of various examples of what a therapy script meant all these phrases, however pitch to me. When I consider pitch deck, I consider a deck of playing cards. And I consider a stack of photographs. So I feel PowerPoint for pitch deck that does not make it proper or flawed. It might be saved as a PDF and despatched in several methods. But I feel, picture picture picture with little or no writing in a pitch deck, proper? I did a implausible pitch deck for a undertaking. And then they wished to know what had been this episode synopsis. They wished all of the phrases after I went to all this effort to make this nice picture wealthy factor. I needed to flip round and find yourself doing character breakdowns. Here’s the place the every episode would start. And then this is our Cliff Notes. I’m cliffhangers. So, to me a pitch bundle is any one among these items. It’s the bundle of the fabric. And a proposal could be extra like a collection Bible the place you may need, this is a synopsis of the pilot. Here are the important thing episodes that we’ll speak about. If it is a restricted collection, you may need all of them. And so within the proposal, you are placing all the things and it is a proposal to somebody. Is it to a product placement firm? Is it to a director? Is it to a star? Is it to somebody taking part in a small supporting position, that is actually key, and so they’re an A Lister, and you are going after them? And you then’re gonna pitch it like, I do not know for those who’ve seen the brand new, I do not know if it is referred to as Karate Kid, however the brand new Karate Kid collection or

Alex Ferrari 20:34
you imply, Cobra Kai? Kai,

Heather Hale 20:37
they train that, proper? But you already know, they pitched it wildly in another way to every of these actors, proper? Because to at least one actor, it was his probability to he was the sufferer, he was the one which had the unlawful kick to the top, proper? So it was completely pitched in another way to every of them to get them to really feel like they had been the protagonists of their tales. Yeah, so So it is the identical factor, for those who’re pitching to somebody who’s bought a fan, it is a implausible huge half. But they’re solely in two episodes of possibly a ten episode restricted collection, you are pitching that key position, none of the remainder of it actually issues as a result of they are not even there. So it’s a must to ensure that it is what’s in it for me. And what’s related to me about this.

Alex Ferrari 21:19
So it is value is your customized making pitches per particular person. Yeah, particular person factor,

Heather Hale 21:24
however actually, 85 to 90% is identical, proper, you are simply taking out some stuff and shifting it. So I’ve began doing pitch decks and proposals. And then some, I do not usually have the flexibility for a sizzle reel. I imply, I can do Ripa maddix and issues however my modifying expertise are are on the upswing. Make them so if I’ve somebody on the group, who’s an awesome editor, that is implausible. I seize photographs and I grabbed I’ll give like a an AVI timecode script of right here the place this might be nice this clip this clip, this clip, and this is how we may pull this collectively. But for my functions, I can normally do it with photographs, I’ve grabbed off the web, which you already know, I’m certain all people is aware of, however proper click on and you should use it, you do not want REITs you needn’t pay for it, get the very best charges can after which, you already know, make it smaller and wrap your textual content round it. And you can also make a extremely lovely presentation that basically hits the excessive notes. And then on the web site, I’ve a bunch of examples of all the things too.

Alex Ferrari 22:22
And we’ll put these within the present notes with out query after which a sizzle reel. Because that is additionally one other thriller that like a ripple Matic what’s a sizzle reel. Exactly.

Heather Hale 22:29
Well, for those who consider a trailer, the trailer for a film, say for instance, is commonly sadly starting center and finish and it provides away all the perfect moments and it ruins the spoilers, proper? That’s typical dangerous trailer however it will get butts within the seat. So the cinema a trailer for for instance, Jane, the virgin for this week will probably be this week. And they are not going to let you know about pilot they are not gonna inform about the entire season. It’s simply what’s arising. So for those who’re or Game of Thrones, no matter it’s that you just’re, you already know, binge watching, for those who occur to be watching it weekly on say, broadcast tv. It’s this upcoming week which might be the like America’s Got Talent. Here’s who’s within the semifinals, no matter it’s, that is arising, that is the trailer, a sizzle reel could be the entire season. Here’s the entire asset that like for those who had been promoting a TV present that you’ve got put within the cat, let’s assume like just like the canine whisperer. It could be clips of the entire 5 or 10 years or huge bang principle it could be you already know, they could be promoting that to different nations. And that sizzle reel is the entire season, or the entire collection, or the entire anthology collection you assume a True Detective American Horror Story. So it is not telling you what is arising subsequent week. It’s not telling you the entire story like a trailer may or a trailer ought to tease. So they’re all other ways of teasing. It’s simply how a lot content material of the asset are they teasing and whilst I provide you with all these definitions that you already know they might all be flawed for a unique type of undertaking. It’s simply I feel I like the saying promote the sizzle not the steak. Right? You simply you simply need to tease and intrigue them so that they need to come again they need they need like a logline is to get them to ask to learn the script if if a logline will get them to ask to learn the synopsis. They simply requested for the second hurdle such as you need to all the time go for the garments so that you’re making an attempt to get them to ask to learn the script ask to see your you already know your screener requested to get to the following step. And if you cannot get them to make that leap, what’s the perfect subsequent factor that may hopefully maintain driving in the direction of your objective?

Alex Ferrari 24:42
Now, how do you assemble the pitch? I do know that is additionally a loaded query as a result of it relies on what sort of pitches however like you already know, for instance a screenwriter goes to enter a pitch assembly with you already know a possible producer or studio. How do you assemble actually like assemble the pitch like as a result of some a few of them will go in there and speak for half-hour you are like, nope. So how do you do it?

Heather Hale 25:04
And I speak an awesome deal within the e book about completely different sorts of pitches, completely different sorts of initiatives, completely different environments. So the pitch for an on the studio lot, assembly, an official pitch assembly, that could be half-hour lengthy, the place all people within the room has learn your author’s Bible, your collection Bible, they may have even learn this learn the screenplay, like generally you go in, and also you’re pitching after the actual fact the place all people’s learn all the things. And then different instances, you are doing a pitch fest occasion or digital pitch fest factor, the place it is 5 minutes, it is a whole stranger, and you bought to, you already know, do your complete elevator pitch and do not even have time to construct rapport. So I feel it relies on what you are pitching, character pushed initiatives are going to be pitched fairly in another way than a plot pushed undertaking, a excessive idea undertaking goes to be fairly in another way pitch one thing that could be a well-known novel, or a well-known life story, someplace the place we have now some level of reference, that is going to be fairly in another way pitch than some unique worldview of like a Juno. Right? And it is, it is a complete, it’s a must to know the world and the particular person and so relies on what it’s you are pitching. Same factor with a pilot, a pilot for a, whether or not it is comedy or drama, it’ll be very a lot about that driving protagonist, as a result of it could be it could be a serial, it could be episodic, who is aware of that? Are we going to need to tune into this character week after week. And then within the e book, I am going by all the things, together with actuality TV, sport exhibits, documentaries, all the things. So it relies on two, are you aware something in regards to the individuals you are pitching to? Sometimes who you are pitching to you possibly can google them and you’ve got a superb really feel for who’s going to be within the room? I give methods for how you can discover out who’s going to be within the room. Sometimes you are utterly ready and who’s within the room has modified by the point you get there. Like I needed to take care of MPC when comp when Comcast was buying NBC Universal, so I had a 4 yr deal. And you’ll go in and also you who you thought you had been pitching to, and you have carried out all of your analysis on was completely different. And I even went in and pitched at some point, and so they needed to name it off due to the inventory shares. And who was they had been requiring? And they could not hear y’all. You know, there’s all types of stuff occurring. Same factor with an investor, are they legit? Are they actual? Are they not, it is simply generally onerous to know who you are pitching to. So you need to just remember to’re ready to type of lead off with some prime notes. I usually consider like an overture and a musical or an opera. It’s like growth, growth, growth, skipping a rock throughout the water, in order that they get a way that there is going to be gunplay, there’s going to be some combat choreography, there’s going to be this epic romance, we get a way of the kind of issues we’ll be seeing. And you then do a deep dive into the character that you just’re pitching to possibly the visuals and cinematics to a director, possibly why there’s an awesome affinity target market to an investor. It relies on what you are pitching to why, who and why. And that is one other factor I speak about is the like journalism, the who, what, the place, when, why, like, take into consideration these issues. And so within the e book, I did what I believed was numerous enjoyable. And I’ve had numerous readers learn it, and so they cherished it. I’m not tooting my very own horn, I simply was actually thought each minute. What What did I want I had 20 years in the past, what does storytellers have to have. And so I did all these work, worksheets and spreadsheets, and this is how you can break it down. I’ve some stuff from Blake Snyder in there that might save a cat and all of the genres. And this is an method for loglines. If you do not like that, no worries, this is how you can break down a tagline. Here’s how you can use irony. Here’s how all of the other ways of going from logline to synopsis to pitch deck to video, all of the other ways since you may need to go backwards and forwards. And that is a giant premise of the e book is as you refine and hone your advertising and marketing supplies, it turns into actual evident, the place your issues are in your script. Right? Real Clear. So you are rewriting and growing as you are advertising and marketing and as you are pitching. And once you pitch and individuals are confused. It’s in all probability an issue within the script. You know, or missed alternative when somebody laughs once they’re not speculated to. There’s one thing there is a there is a hole there ready for that you just you must return and rewrite your script. And not that you must you already know, be influenced by all that. But however it’s it is not artwork till somebody encounters it. Right. So what you assume is in your head could be fairly completely different. Like I do not know if I informed you this within the final one. But I had a thrower class with Neil Hicks at UCLA that I like.

And he gave us this train at school and it was you already know, what would you like? So one character requested the opposite character, what would you like? And my brother, his spouse had simply come out of the closet. So this had rocked the world of our household. And so I wrote you already know, what would you like a divorce like Because to me, it was a really melodramatic, poignant factor. So I wrote this little train, and I wrote a divorce. And I did this dialogue forwards and backwards. And then he requested us to learn it. So this is my household processing this difficult factor. And as I’m studying it, the category is in hysterics laughing prefer it was a spoof on comedy. And I used to be too embarrassed to love, I may have cried with how embarrassed I used to be, however I simply saved studying it. And on the finish, you will Hicks it that’s a few of the greatest comedy writing we have ever heard. Well, I have never even had the time to see the humor in it. But it simply exhibits you that what you assume you are expressing someone else could be getting one thing fairly completely different based mostly on their worldview, or the juxtaposition of what you have put collectively. So it is all about your supply, and their discovery. And is there a spot there? And and might you is {that a} missed alternative? Or do it is advisable refine your presentation?

Alex Ferrari 30:59
Now? And would you agree that generally in case you are fortunate sufficient to stroll into an workplace or somebody’s residence, or you already know, relying on an investor or one thing like that, and you have not had an opportunity to do your analysis, since you did not know who that particular person was? That for those who do scan that room and see what they’ve within the room, like, oh, there are Laker followers, oh, they bought an autographed image of Muhammad Ali Oh, they have you already know, issues on the wall, wish to type of like rapidly do a profile in your head about them and attempt to join or create rapport with them in a technique, form, or type earlier than you even begin the pitch even when it is for a pair minutes. Does that make sense?

Heather Hale 31:32
It that is truly an age previous gross sales approach referred to as fish on the wall approach. And you stroll in and also you see the massive Marlin on the wall and also you go, Hey, did you catch that? And it opens up an opportunity for them to speak about one thing that they love. You may even see a photograph dice and say, Oh, your son so cute. He performs soccer. Well, yeah, now he is in faculty, as a result of that image is from once they had been 5 or eight or no matter. But nonetheless you’ve gotten a body of reference. I usually recommend individuals put on icebreaking jewellery or like your shirt is the who is aware of it the camp.

Alex Ferrari 32:05
Yeah, the cap. Yeah, it is only a phrase one thing. Yeah. Uh huh.

Unknown Speaker 32:08
Well, what’s it although?

Alex Ferrari 32:09
It’s only a place you’re employed out?

Heather Hale 32:12
Yeah. But I imply, so then I then we start to have one thing to speak about, and hustle and be your baseball cap, indie movie, hustle, proper? So similar factor, I’m not sporting something good. But if I had like a Native American undertaking, and I had turquoise jewellery, and somebody stated, Oh, I like that I’ll truly see how you can Staci like growth. And you go proper into your story, proper? I usually attempt to think about what may I put on that may make them and good instance, I used to go down yearly to the Marlin fishing event in Cabo San Lucas, the place heaps and many millionaires and billionaires aren’t that 25,000 simply to fish, proper. So I’d carry the bag from final yr’s event in order that once I was at LAX, and also you’re on this little teeny terminal going to Cabo San Lucas, everybody knew you had been going there. And so by the point you bought there, you had met just a few individuals on the airplane, he needed to change to a smaller airplane. They all knew Cabo San Lucas, they noticed that the Bisbee, black and blue, after which by the point you are on the shuttle, which they all the time cease at somebody’s home or one thing, you already know, the cousin’s gasoline station for beer. You have made 568 associates earlier than you even bought into the lodge. Same factor with just like the American Film market, Matt p these items for those who deliver final yr’s bag, and also you’re on the Loews lodge, individuals know that you just’re in that mill you in that world. So no matter it’s that you’ve, I would not be sporting costumes. But when you’ve got a T shirt or mainly a baseball cap one thing, however even I’ve like some actually cool jewellery from Ireland Murano. That’s like glass blown, after which you possibly can speak about, you possibly can work out a strategy to have an anecdote that drives you to your story. It’s only a strategy to shortcut.

Alex Ferrari 33:50
I’ve heard of a few of the most horrible pitches I’ve ever heard. I’d love to listen to when anybody Have you heard about like individuals like actually dressing up sending Chippendale dancers to brokers. It’s not a superb factor. And it usually doesn’t work for those who’re simply making an attempt to get consideration for consideration sake, that type of stunt stuff. It can work. But from what I once more, all the time if it is carried out correctly, if it is carried out effectively and it is simply usually not.

Heather Hale 34:19
1,000,000 examples are going by my head. We may speak all day about dangerous pitches. million pitch quick by deliberate and arranged hundreds of thousands. But two that come to thoughts one was a stripper who did a lap dance as a part of her pitch. Okay, certain.

Get her It’s effective, however it’s fairly neat to obviously assume all people on the town wished to listen to that pitch. He had no real interest in her script. So she needed to schlep round throughout city doing lap dances for what like that is, that is not going that can assist you. Another one. This could be extremely politically incorrect, however I’ll let you know somebody got here as much as me this was 1520 years in the past, and I feel it was a feminine to male transgender. And he was saying that he did not need that it was a real story. It was his story. And he did not need individuals taking the assembly, simply to see what appear to be, proper? It was 20 years in the past. So it was much less. It was it was extra uncommon than and I stated to him, I stated to not be disrespectful. But I want I had a hook line. And the man laughed. He’s like, you already know what, you are proper. Like, it’s what it’s, proper? It is what it’s. So it is not the identical because the stripper doing it. It’s such as you get within the room. That’s the hook. Okay, now’s the story there. So there’s, there’s all the time a hook, there’s all the time an angle there. Like I stated, I’ve 1,000,000 tales of people that’ve carried out good jobs, dangerous jobs. It is what it’s. I did one with Martha’s Vineyard undertaking the place I went into pitch to I feel it was NB C’s blue sky community. Those USA. And there had there was two completely different execs I used to be pitching to. And they every had a unique assistant. And so I used to be doing numerous coordinating, making an attempt to get the 2 of them within the room. And so the day that I got here, I took chocolate bars from Martha’s Vineyard for the 2 assistants. So it wasn’t it was just a little brown nosing. But it was type of undertaking particular, they might keep in mind it was only a thanks, I gave it to them off to the facet. And I feel just a little touches like which might be very private and good. And then they do not forget that. So I feel there’s numerous issues you are able to do which might be throughout the scope of not simply widespread courtesy, however like I consider aside from Japan a yr they do oh Miyagi, the place they carry a style of the season. So that was just a little style of Martha’s Vineyard for this comedy that we had been pitching to their bosses.

Alex Ferrari 36:56
In my e book, I truly had went round Hollywood pitching with a mobster, you already know, with the e book I wrote just a little bit in the past. And that was my hook like they I used to be sitting on the quick time period Armand with a few of the largest actors on this planet purely as a result of they simply wished to have a dinner or espresso or drink with the mobster and he by no means dissatisfied. So it you utilize what you bought? I suppose

Heather Hale 37:25
that is the identical factor. Like I used to be speaking with a transgender man like, I’m not I’m not making any type of a judgement simply that there will probably be that curiosity looky bathroom kicking tires. It sucks, however why not use it? So for those who’ve bought a mafioso that is prepared to return with you and schmooze Have at it, proper?

Alex Ferrari 37:42
I do not assume there’s a mafia. I do not assume there’s a mafia in order that would not come round and devices in Hollywood. Are you kidding? Yes, they’re undoubtedly pitch worthy with out query. Right. Now, how do you analysis potential consumers for both your screenplay or potential initiatives? There’s lots of people simply don’t know the place to even start with simply looking. Who’s gonna need this?

Heather Hale 38:04
Yeah. So I cowl that actual extensively in each books. And in all probability that is one among my, that is in all probability my superhero ability is like, my dad was a spy. And I used to be nearly a spy. So

Unknown Speaker 38:16
I, you already know, I

Heather Hale 38:17
ended up I interviewed with the CIA in Arlington, Virginia for every week once I was 19 years previous. So my dad was Yeah, so my dad was within the Secret Service. And so I’m like, Spidey expertise and spin analysis and due diligence. So a pair issues I discovered, sadly, for Sony, you already know, they’d that massive leak. I didn’t know this, however it is a horrible tip to provide individuals however it’s true. And you already know, as soon as it is on the web, it is on the market eternally. If you are making an attempt to trace down contact data for somebody, like for instance, you already know, it is at caa.com, like, you already know, the, the area title, proper, and you already know, their title, for those who put in, like for those who put in Alex Ferrari Plus, at indie movie, hustle, calm, one thing like that. And simply do a seek for that. What I discovered was a gold mine of all of the Sony press releases that pulled up that particular person’s title that had no matter their precise e-mail tackle was beneath, as a result of it got here up on all these completely different paperwork. And now you have bought their contact data. So that is higher than selection perception that is higher than IMDb Pro. It’s the stuff they’re utilizing internally. So I should not share that as a result of it’s going to in all probability I’ll scramble to vary it. But that is been an incredible useful resource for contact information. But I additionally do like, I’m, I’m certain you’ve gotten run into traders who are usually not traders

Alex Ferrari 39:48
know, by no means they’re all on the up and up. Right? They all have hundreds of thousands. This is my favourite. This is my favourite. They say it is solely 5 million. I do not that is no downside in any respect. I may do 5 million in my sleep. I do not know Get up for lesson. One. I am unable to decide up lunch proper now. I am unable to decide up lunch.

Heather Hale 40:04
And their footwear are low-cost. Right?

Alex Ferrari 40:08
So not there’s something flawed with Payless footwear. But for those who’re saying you’ve gotten $5 million to speculate, you should not have Payless

Heather Hale 40:13
footwear. I’m saying, we are able to have footwear from Payless. We’re asking for five

Unknown Speaker 40:18
million. Exactly.

Heather Hale 40:20
Exactly. So coming off I’ve began to do is put within the title plus rip-off plus scandal plus fraud Plus, you already know, and discover out as a result of somebody someplace may have stated, this man’s a complete fraud, it is a rip-off. So utilizing these search phrases, you already know, turn into a world class web search particular person. Because you would be amazed what you discover. And and even for those who discover, you already know, who’s it, Zuckerberg, anybody who has 10 million associates is sure to have just a few enemies, you are sure to search out some grime on anyone. So you possibly can see if it is legit or not, you possibly can see that. So, however discovering out what they’ve carried out, I had an instance the place I will not use it. And I will not use any names. But mainly, someone tried to bully me. And they received into optioning, one among my greatest initiatives, saying that they’d produced just a little film referred to as after which I will not say what it’s as a result of it’ll be too straightforward to trace down. But they produced just a little film referred to as XYZ. And then once I did some due diligence, they’ve been the second unit producer, second unit line producer,

Unknown Speaker 41:34
oh my god,

Heather Hale 41:36
effectively, I’ve choices I ought to have on the time this was pre like I ought to have gone into the backroom. And IMDb have to see that they had been second unit line producer, that is fairly completely different than even for those who’re one factor,

Alex Ferrari 41:48
first line producer, that does not

Heather Hale 41:50
imply something, whereas distinction to chop checks out of a checking account that someone else bought cash into. Right? So simply do your due diligence, like loopy. And then sadly, and I discovered this for those who discover somebody who has an organization title that is actually widespread odds are they selected it as a result of it is actually widespread, and you’ll by no means fairly suss them out. So, you simply, there’s so many individuals taking part in Hollywood, like if I may return in time, and clear my calendar of all of the individuals who wasted my time. How a lot of like Pulitzer Prize Nobel successful initiatives, proper? Because we’d have all that point again. So do your due diligence and, you already know, take note of pink flags, as a result of pink flags do not get higher.

Alex Ferrari 42:35
And sure, it was with out query. But But I’m I’m shocked to listen to all these tales in regards to the enterprise. I’ve by no means I may by no means think about one thing like that occuring and our enterprise. No, it is in our dish is stunning, stunning, stunning.

Heather Hale 42:56
And that is the issue is lots of people are taking part in Hollywood.

Alex Ferrari 42:59
Everybody need to pay 95% 95% of like hollywood,

Heather Hale 43:03
hollywood, so it is advisable work out, are they I imply, it is one factor, like, I’ve respect for the man who’s making an attempt to fund his fluffs. Breakthrough, effective. If you are gonna put up cash for or whoever, their son, their daughter, in the event that they’re gonna put up cash to get a break for somebody, I’m throughout it, let’s encompass them with the perfect expertise, let’s give like, let’s get you your a reimbursement. Like, like, let’s simply be trustworthy about what we’re making an attempt to do right here. But it is when the individuals are taking part in Hollywood, they do not actually have the cash. So you already know, I’m a former mortgage banker. So I’m fairly good at monitoring all the way down to see if individuals have the cash or not. Because in mortgage banking, it’s a must to do proof of funds. If you ask for proof of funds, a legit investor will provide you with proof of funds. Yeah, they might block out the account quantity, they might have it simply be higher off from the financial institution supervisor saying that they’ve X variety of digits. It’s none of your corporation, however just a few third get together verification. a number of methods to show that. So it is exhausting.

Alex Ferrari 44:08
I may see it in your face simply speaking about it. You’re exhausted about it.

Heather Hale 44:13
Like I used to be concerned.

I’ll let you know two issues and we gotta transfer on as a result of I’ll simply get sick to my abdomen. So I received a senate commendation from California State Senate for serving to San Juan Capistrano keep out of the junk bond scandal when Orange County filed chapter. San Juan Capistrano is the one metropolis to not be dragged by that. And so I used to be the vice chairman of the Chamber of Commerce, I used to be actually actively concerned in saving a historic constructing yada yada yada. But we noticed that are available in like a prepare wreck like there are indicators. There was additionally an organization and I’ll go forward and say it as a result of it was a giant deal quest monetary. That pulled a scan on heaps and many movies. I will not point out them however they’re movies you should have heard of. We thought we had 30 million raised we thought we had Money in escrow like, and I truly had the FBI name me and say, Can you assist us like I used to be concerned in that investigation as a result of I used to be the one firm that pulled out and stated, I stated to my companions who’re all excessive profile, I stated, assure you within the eleventh hour, they are going to change escrow corporations, they’re gonna say there was an issue with the wire, they’ve to change escrow corporations, and what is going on to occur is, people who find themselves supposed to place pores and skin within the sport need to put simply 400,000, proper, since you’re getting 30 million This is your pores and skin within the sport, you are going to go and that is going to not be that constructing will not be there. Because there’s there will probably be fraud. So there have been I helped attempt to assist them determine this all out. But sadly, not every week goes by you consider the people who find themselves all these web scams with that you just inherited cash that each one the

Alex Ferrari 45:49
Nigerian prince, sure,

Heather Hale 45:51
Prince and even the Social Security scams which might be occurring, sadly, goes on in our enterprise on a regular basis the place individuals say they are going to rent you as a line producer for a undertaking and they are going to wire you cash and it is advisable purchase gear, the gear goes to someone else that is money out of your account as a result of the funds bounced. So the scams are simply there.

It’s it’s exhausting.

Alex Ferrari 46:12
I’ll inform I’ll let you know, I’ll let you know my FBI story if you would like to. Yeah, at the start. So, so the, the worst and I’ve by no means spoken about this on on any of my exhibits, as a result of it is simply not. It’s not, it is not one thing that you just truly, you already know, speak about so much. But I used to be referred to as by the FBI, which isn’t a cellphone name you need to get as a result of once you get it, you are like, Hi, that is the FBI. I’m like, No, who is that this? And they’re like Sarah, the place the FBI was like, Oh, God, and like, we’re USA, you connect this product. Did you’re employed on these initiatives with these producers? And I’m like, Yeah, I did. I labored in publish and I identical to, we’re flying all the way down to interview you. They’ve been indicted. And we need to see if we’re gonna use you as a witness. And we simply need to hear your facet of the story, not your facet. I’m not in bother. You’re like, effectively, cling on. Let

Heather Hale 47:00
me simply verify with my mafioso see what

Alex Ferrari 47:05
that is, fortunately, years later, and my documentation of the mafia story. The mafia story has been documented in my e book, which is offered. I’ll discover bookstores on Amazon as we converse. But this was a very separate factor. I imply, that is in all probability about 10 years later, however man and so they had him come over, we had a set sit down, and we talked to over over a espresso. No, no, no, it did not come over home, we went met at a espresso store. I’m like, hey, come over, and we set that after which afterwards, after we felt they felt that like, Okay, this man was completely not concerned with something. And it was cool. Then, in fact, I’m speaking, then, in fact, I’m like, so do you watch the exe recordsdata? space? 51? Is it actual? Come on, inform me. And I stated they simply began laughing. They simply begin pacing themselves. But it is a severe factor. Another undertaking that was concerned with the director went to jail, as a result of he defrauded tax tax incentives, as a result of he informed the informed the state that he paid an actor $6 billion when he truly solely paid him $600,000. Right and possibly pocket in pocket pocket of the distinction. And then impulsively, he is in jail for 5 years.

Heather Hale 48:12
That’s hurting, not simply the IRS, however it’s additionally hurting your traders, your get together, undertaking, star, everybody’s pissed on the star as a result of he is making 6 million when he is solely making 600,000. Like the lies that go backwards and forwards is, like stated exhausting. And I’ll say not not simply in gross sales. There is like we talked in regards to the starting. You need to undertaking that you just’re greater than you’re it’s a must to purchase Payless footwear on the primary day and put on them earlier than they get scuffed and crumble. Like it’s a must to put on it is all smoke and mirrors. So there are people who find themselves hammering their crew down saying that their price range is 600,000. And they flip round and inform the investor or the distributor that it is 1,000,000 greenback undertaking. Well, that’s truck as a result of they’ve the the distributor will say effectively, it is 1,000,000 {dollars}, we’re solely going to provide you 600,000 Well, now you are good, proper? But then the crews discover out you are getting it is 1,000,000 greenback undertaking, you’ll meet 1 / 4 extra an hour after which they’re hanging. Like it is robust. It’s robust the balancing.

Alex Ferrari 49:14
It’s a balancing act with that type of stuff. But we have now we have now gone off the rails right here, which is dangerous. But it is implausible. Because truly it is all very, excellent data for individuals. Listen, pay attention, you already know, you and I’ve been across the enterprise for a very long time. We’ve seen numerous stuff and and I let you know some individuals haven’t like I do know individuals proper now listening to this podcast, their minds are blown utterly by a few of the issues that you just and I take as a right as a result of we have skilled it so many instances. But on the market that is who they’re marking. That’s their mark the man or the lady listening.

Heather Hale 49:45
I feel within the final podcast in regards to the factor I overheard on the market proper about taking skimming off the highest of a SAG bond.

Alex Ferrari 49:53
No, no, no,

Heather Hale 49:54
no, no, do not inform us it. So I used to be on the American Film market and I overheard you One distributor coaching a moist behind the ears, one other distributor gross sales agent, mainly saying that the contract ought to learn that they make a fee off all proceeds. So what which means is is you understand how you place up a SAG bond proper to pay all of your actors? Yeah, so for instance that bond is a mil of 1,000,000 {dollars} 200,000 relies on no matter your price range is bound you place up that bond to ensure sag AFTRA that you’ll pay your actors. So when that refund of your bond, your financial savings account, that composite, the composite that you’ve got allotted to pay payroll, comes again by the account, they take a fee off the highest of you getting your individual deposit again. So you bought and so they’re instructing each other how you can screw impartial filmmakers. So you simply gotta watch. I do know, stunning, stunning,

Alex Ferrari 50:51
I am unable to a distributor by no means I believed they had been the they had been the had been the cream of the crop, by no means a distributor.

Heather Hale 50:57
Yeah. So I imply, it is simply, I’m not jaded, I like what we do and love what we do, we’re fortunate to get to inform tales to attach, you already know, I like it, you simply have to concentrate to the daisy chain of middlemen within the center. And the people who find themselves not craters, I additionally discover that with brokers and managers and leisure attorneys, and there is numerous good ones within the enterprise. But by the point is one creator to a different and there is 12 you already know, dominoes within the center. By the time the 2 creators can speak collectively, they’ve a shared imaginative and prescient, and so they need as a lot as they’ll get on the display screen. They need to be trustworthy and genuine to the fabric. It’s all individuals within the center who simply take a chunk off prime, each time your cash adjustments palms, somebody’s getting a chunk of it. So it is only a robust, robust enterprise. And nonetheless, we’re in it.

Alex Ferrari 51:45
And we’re and we’re nonetheless psychotic sufficient to do that on it. And smile and smile about it as a result of we’re all psychotic, and we’re all just a little bit loopy inside

Heather Hale 51:54
I I usually say if I received the lottery, I’d get up and maintain doing what I’m doing solely and do a hell of so much simpler. I do know precisely what initiatives I’d be engaged on and who I’d be hiring. I maintain doing it, it could simply be simpler.

Alex Ferrari 52:07
It’d be so much it might be so much simpler with out query. Now do you’ve gotten any advertising and marketing suggestions for screenwriters, and likewise filmmakers to both assist them with their very own private model or the model of the undertaking as a result of I’ve one thing like a film like Kung Fury. I do not know for those who ever heard of that film that did so effectively that they are truly doing a characteristic of it. Now. That was such a effectively branded, I imply, so brilliantly branded with some man from Sweden, I feel or one thing like that, who did it. And that is, that is an awesome instance of a of a undertaking model title, however then there’s filmmaker branding, as effectively. Or screenwriter branding normally. Like any recommendation, you’ve gotten a advertising and marketing recommendations on how one can get them on the market.

Heather Hale 52:47
Well, it is humorous as a result of you already know you it is the flip facet of the coin, the extra you model your self, the extra pigeonholed you’re. And you then need to shift from a historic biopic to a thriller and, oh, that is not what she writes. You know? So I feel, I feel Jeff, Archie wrote Sleepless in Seattle stated as soon as at promoting to Hollywood, you get nouns and verbs, proper? nouns and verbs. If you are going to use an adjective, they have to be valuable. So with you along with your undertaking along with your model, just remember to’re pondering of your adjectives, as nearly search engine optimisation, Search Engine Optimization phrases, like are you? Is it a hip phrase that is going to conjure that affinity market the fitting age demographic? Is it? Are they phrases that basically clearly delian ate your worldview? The sensibility like for those who consider Wes Anderson, otherwise you consider john Grisham, I imply, you possibly can consider Steven key you possibly can consider a few of these individuals otherwise you consider like Jane, the Virgin, prefer it’s a type of a campy telenovela with its tongue in cheek, prefer it’s actually contemporary within the woods now. I imply, it is a lot it has been round for a very long time, Big Bang Theory, you already know, making geeks scorching, like all of the various things they did. They, they knew what they had been going after what they had been creating. So I feel it is the identical factor for you, when you’ve got a product undertaking is less complicated to manufacturers and an individual as a result of the particular person may need to evolve and alter and, you already know, have a look at the Beatles and the completely different influences they integrated as they name, proper. So music from India, like no matter it was, they had been doing, they had been evolving. So I feel it is essential that you just ensure that what you are the Nisha carving out for that undertaking is basically crystal clear to that nation. And that is an enormous a part of the collaborative course of and ensuring you are all making the identical film. In a writers group, that you do not have individuals making an attempt to focus on and inform their story along with your script, like, what’s the story you are making an attempt to inform and be sure you honor that imaginative and prescient? And then past that, how do you talk that and even, you already know, I’ve carried out some religion based mostly issues which might be Not essentially a Christian religion base, however you need to not alienate individuals who aren’t feeling that. So you already know, how are you going to type of play down some components as a way to get these items of the puzzle after which play up these advantages to different individuals? So it is what, what are the items of the puzzle? Same factor with ethnicity, you already know, I all the time attempt, I’ve a pair initiatives now the place the characters are like Jordan, Chris might be a lady or a man might be black, white, Asian, Native American, like, I’m cool with that. So I attempt to like, proper, colorblind, except it is actually essential that it is a ginger Scotsman, proper? That’d be one thing that that lady must be center aged or postmenopausal to. That’s what the story is. So regardless of the subject is, however in any other case, are you able to be colorblind and your writing and your casting, in order that now if you are going to, for those who’re pitching that to an African American lady to play the lead, that very same pitch bundle may go to an Asian man to play that very same position? Because it is a thriller, and they’re an agent, or no matter? So how do you? How are you, it is all comes all the way down to who you are pitching to? And why what are you making an attempt to get out of them?

Unknown Speaker 56:14
You know, are

Heather Hale 56:15
you making an attempt to get them to fall in love with that position?

Are you making an attempt to get them to really feel like they’re gonna make their a reimbursement? Are you making an attempt to get them to open their doorways after

Unknown Speaker 56:23
hours per

Heather Hale 56:23
location? Like, what’s the cause you are, what are you making an attempt to do with that?

Alex Ferrari 56:29
Excellent. Now, I additionally need to ask you, cuz you are on the market and also you’re, you are within the within the trenches, as they are saying, what’s straightforward? I do know, proper? What’s

Heather Hale 56:39
one among as of late need to not be within the trenches, I need to be like up on the Cannes Film Festival on the balcony, not within the trenches, or on a yacht someplace. But yeah, I’m within the trenches.

Alex Ferrari 56:48
I can set I can, I can sense that from you. I can set so all of us need to be on the prime of the mountain with Spielberg and Cameron, and all these type of guys may simply do no matter they need, each time they need. But till that day comes we’re right here huffing it. So as as we’re right here, down within the trenches,

Heather Hale 57:05
these are the nice previous days, we simply do not know it but.

Alex Ferrari 57:06
Exactly. These, these are the tales that may inform these are the tales that may inform them the yachts. Oh, no. But so TV initiatives or characteristic movie initiatives, what is the higher? What’s a superb market proper now? What’s the place’s probably the most alternative? Or normally? What is the place is there probably the most alternative for content material creators, screenwriters, filmmakers to make a dent?

Heather Hale 57:32
Well, I have never I, I’ve an opinion, not recommendation. So I’ve bought a number of opinions. I feel nobody is aware of. And if I knew I’d have a crystal ball, and we’d be on that yacht having a extremely effective wine, proper. So I’m not saying I’m the Oracle, I’ve my opinions. And my opinion is movie and tv once I first wrote the primary e book, you already know, my e book proposal stated that movie and tv had been converging. And 11. People thought that was actually insightful and one particular person’s like, No, they are not. They’re completely completely different enterprise fashions. They’re completely completely different. No, they’re converging. They’re so converging. It’s so seamless. Now. The viewer does not care how that content material bought to them, whether or not it was satellite tv for pc, or you already know, coaxial cables, or cell service, they do not care if it is on an iPhone display screen, a giant display screen of their display screen, the cinemas at residence are pretty much as good as they’re even higher than a few of the Cineplex on the mall. So that convergence is fairly unbelievable what everybody needs. Remember the previous days with web sites the place they referred to as Sticky, sticky web site, they need sticky TV now and is what’s TV is TV Cable broadcast. Is it streaming like what’s it? It’s simply content material, it is all content material. And so what they need is, whether or not they’re advert supported, whether or not they’re subscription supported fashions, whether or not they’re you already know, there’s so many alternative fashions now, what they need is addictive, binge worthy marquee worth inventory. And so I feel the most important alternative for the time being is restricted occasion collection anthology collection. Its serial programming, whether or not it is episodic have a look at Black Mirror, or which solely did three episodes I suppose of their subsequent season, which is type of odd. But who cares prefer it’s regardless of the tales require. So is it are like Twilight Zone, they’re rebooting, you already know, these sorts of anthology collection the place the grand American Horror Story True Detective the style unifies them and you already know you could come again week after week and get that type of factor who is aware of who’s going to be starring in it? Or like one hour dramas and serials your your Netflix and Amazon and Hulu you already know, Hulu simply received its first Emmy for Handmaid’s Tale. So all of these items, they need people who find themselves going to be loyal and are available again, whether or not it is appointment viewing or binge viewing or simply wanting to speak about it as a result of the we have had this nonlinear time shift the place individuals do not speak across the watercooler anymore, proper now, you might have seen all of Game of Thrones, and I won’t have seen any of it. So how will we, how will we have interaction on that? And that is what’s occurring along with your, your bought abilities all all over the world is it is like they need this, it is both gotta be stay, and it’s a must to be that worry of lacking out, we’re speaking about, you already know, so, once more, it relies upon, is it actuality, it is documentaries are having a complete resurgence of Renaissance now. Because it is simpler to search out these items. So I feel once more, it is all about figuring out your target market and being genuine and true to the fabric. And there’s some collection on the market the place one episode is 11 minutes, and one other one is 44. It’s regardless of the story wanted to be for that chapter. So we have now a lot freedom as storytellers right this moment. And that the fragmentation of the dial, I usually consider millennials going what dial, proper? What’s the dial, to dial like, they do not even know that I’ve this body of reference. So we have now to have the ability to shift with that and know that on the finish of the day, individuals however there’s so many roles in our trade and all over the world, in each trade which might be being taken over by robots. It’s robust for a robotic to inform a narrative.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:14
Yeah. They’re not effectively, they can not, they can not, however it’s all based mostly on older individuals’s I noticed AI doing it. There was a complete episode on arising about that, like AI and and the way they wrote it. But it is all algorithm based mostly. It’s all based mostly on previous scripts. Right? And it is simply not, it is not there.

Heather Hale 1:01:36
Yeah, so that is what I feel I do not even know if I’m answering your query now. But I’m inquisitive about what we’re speaking about.

Alex Ferrari 1:01:40
No, no, no, I bought you. You made it, you made an excellent reply to it.

Heather Hale 1:01:44
But it is being tapped into not simply the Zeitgeist that is present, however what issues to you. Like, what’s irritating to you? what pisses you off? What’s inspiring to you, as a result of for those who’re genuine and actual about that, you are going to discover others, for whom that is true, as effectively. And the extra you possibly can keep persist with the reality, the extra like particular it’s, the extra common it’s. So I feel, I feel we’re in an incredible time. And I feel for those who simply maintain sticking to your weapons, and keep within the trenches, and maintain hustlin and occur, you already know, good, good work rises to the cream of the crop.

Alex Ferrari 1:02:20
Now, inform me just a little bit in regards to the e book. We’ve talked so much about stuff contained in the e book, however simply inform us precisely what the e book is. Where can individuals discover it when it is out there?

Heather Hale 1:02:28
It’s referred to as story promoting, how you can develop market and pitch your movie and TV initiatives. It’s a Michael straightforward e book. And it is, there is a hyperlink on my web site, Heather Hale comm ahead slash retailer promoting, that it is a pre order on Amazon. So they really can order it now. But they do not ship until July. So it is carried out. It’s able to go. So I do not know what occurs in that strategy of how onerous is it to hit print, proper, and, like, get it to you. But it is popping out. And I’ve had lots of people learn it. And like I stated to not toot my very own horn, however it’s it is actually good. I’m actually pleased with it. I feel I’ve had individuals who’ve been within the enterprise 30 years who’re like, I’d learn this for each undertaking. So I’m actually happy with that. And individuals who have by no means written something are like, Okay, that is it is not rocket science. And it is not coloured by numbers, both. But there are steps and there is some issues to consider. And there’s numerous implausible books on the market on all the things beneath the solar. But I did not really feel like there was a e book on the market that defined these items that we’re all scrambling to create on a regular basis pitch decks collection Bibles, rip of maddix like, what are these phrases? How do you pull them collectively? And do you want a therapy for each undertaking such as you’d like? And what are the what order do they get carried out in so and I speak so much about like, you already know, it is the affinity backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards. It’s it is an by no means ending course of and it may be improvement hell, or it may be I talked about, you already know, discount sauce, you’re taking this big soup terrain and scale back all the things all the way down to nice, implausible components and get to the essence of every of these components and allow them to shine and that is what you are making an attempt to do. And I additionally consider like kindergarten rooms with feng shui like all the things ought to have a spot of you already know me zomboss knees on scene, all the things’s bought a spot and do you’ve gotten all of the items you want all the weather in order that someone may also help you obtain your dream provides them the items they should promote in your behalf?

Alex Ferrari 1:04:23
Now I’m gonna ask you questions requested all my company. What recommendation would you give a filmmaker wanting to interrupt into the enterprise right this moment? Get a job. get an actual job. No, no, no. I’d not I’d not get a job within the enterprise. I’d say as a superb piece of recommendation.

Heather Hale 1:04:40
It’s not a nasty recommendation. I’d say.

You know, write what you already know, write what it is advisable know. Like observe that strategy of discovery so that you just’re writing stuff that you’d need to watch. Surround your self with actually implausible individuals. belief your intestine instincts. If you Someone makes your pores and skin crawl, run, and actually take pleasure in somebody and so they enhance your writing or they enhance their good collaborator, like, spend time with individuals that you just get this, you already know, these productions might be, as you effectively know, simply scrumptious and dry. So you need to be surrounded by individuals who make you giggle, who make you be ok with your self who make you step to the plate to create the perfect work. Don’t encompass your self with naysayers and individuals who make you query your self and, and are hyper essential. I imply, it is all about individuals on the finish of the day, not simply the individuals you are working with, and never simply, you already know, the individuals you are accountable to whether or not they’re traders or distributors, but additionally take into consideration what you are placing out into the communal consciousness. Like, is that one thing that you just need to be a part of your legacy? Like, actually take into consideration that, you already know, put on the market photographs that you really want on the market? I feel individuals usually attempt to kowtow to the as much as the market. And what do you assume is sweet?

Unknown Speaker 1:06:01
How about what want was good?

Alex Ferrari 1:06:05
That was that was that was good. I favored that one. That was? That was good. That was a superb one. I like that one. That was truly actually, actually good. That was it. So the remainder of it was scrapped. But this was truly actually cool. Can you inform me a e book that had the most important influence in your life or profession? Oh,

Heather Hale 1:06:25
yeah, I in all probability should not as a result of it’s going to reveal my politics. Iran, atlas shrugged. The Fountainhead. I’m a libertarian by and thru.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:35
Fair sufficient truthful dose.

Heather Hale 1:06:37
You know, she got here from Russia. And

Unknown Speaker 1:06:38
she, you already know, so

Heather Hale 1:06:40
I do not know that we’re, that we have now the American Dream proper now, or actual capitalism or actual democracy. But what, what we hoped it could be, you already know, that is fairly pure in that, and I do know, there’s individuals who cannot customary.

Alex Ferrari 1:06:52
Hey, everybody’s bought all the things. I requested you a query. What was the e book that impacted you? And that was the e book. And that is all good. Yeah. Now, what’s the lesson that took you the longest to study whether or not within the movie enterprise or in life,

Heather Hale 1:07:04
I’m in all probability nonetheless studying it? Well, there’s a number of issues I’d guess one among them is life’s not truthful. You know. I imply, that is it. It’s actually I want life was truthful. And it is not. It’s not a meritocracy. You know, the perfect particular person does not all the time win. And generally it does not matter how onerous you’re employed. Doesn’t matter how onerous you need it life is not truthful. And it stops. But

Alex Ferrari 1:07:29
you gotta maintain operating. Keep hustling. Okay, maintain on.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:33
Only life was truthful.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:34
Oh, my gosh, would there be higher they’d be so much higher films on this planet.

Heather Hale 1:07:39
That’s like fats comedy and that trailer if life had been truthful.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:43
Now, what’s quick? All proper. Now, what’s the largest worry you have needed to overcome in your profession simply to type of make these first few initiatives?

Heather Hale 1:07:54
Oh, effectively, 1,000,000. Of course. I feel all people has the I’m not ok.

Alex Ferrari 1:07:58
Yes. imposter syndrome.

Heather Hale 1:08:00
So I’m not fearful about that subject. Um, I feel an enormous a part of it. I that is in all probability method too truthful. But it is simply coming to me. I’m not married. Because I’ve suffered so many betrayals and divorces professionally, that I’m in a fortunately dedicated 11 years stable rock stable romance. But I feel I’m simply so I really feel like I’ve been divorced 25 instances, you

Alex Ferrari 1:08:27
know, the sensation, proper? Look, once you’re with a undertaking for 3, 4 or 5 years, and also you and you retain in like oh, it is nearly there. It’s regular. It’s all the time there. It’s nearly reverse. It is about to drop.

Heather Hale 1:08:40
The rug retains getting pulled out from beneath you, you thought that had a hoop on it. Like each time like I had a undertaking I used to be in a payer play provide. And the primary verify had cleared and the contract was signed, and it fell aside. And it did not get both pay or play like how does that occur? Why is like not truthful. Like, I vented all people like I each undertaking, I get a step additional. And then, like there’s 1,000,000 methods to get screwed on this enterprise. And I’ve been screwed by all of them. And I simply maintain pondering I’ve run out of them. And the following one, like, I do not know, I do not know what the lesson is there. But you simply need to, once more, have individuals in your life you could flip to who may also help you see the irony and the life classes and the comedy within the shit that we put up with. Like, there’s all the time a pony there. Maybe there’s it is simply not in that room.

Alex Ferrari 1:09:33
Right, proper. Or if it was only a couple guys in a horse outfit.

Heather Hale 1:09:38
We’re in like, Horton Hears a Who and we’re wanting in all of the flawed rooms which might be filled with shit. Like there is a pony right here someplace. I do not know the place it’s, however

Alex Ferrari 1:09:47
I’m glad this changed into a remedy session. I’m glad I may make it easier to with this. Not Listen, pay attention. I truly I completely really feel you I really feel I’ve had so many initiatives crumble and however for no matter cause. We’re nonetheless right here. We’re right here. And we after which I do not know if that claims one thing in regards to the enterprise or us effectively, or each gone with the wind

Heather Hale 1:10:07
when Scarlett O’Hara standing there and it is I feel it is Civil War, Civil War, revolutionary

Alex Ferrari 1:10:13
Civil War,

Unknown Speaker 1:10:14
the battle and there is all these lifeless troopers. Yeah. And they simply

Heather Hale 1:10:19
blow and that is superior man in Hollywood, proper? And you go searching, you are like, I acknowledge him from 20 years in the past, and I used to hate her guts, however she’s a trooper, she’s nonetheless right here, we’re gonna be associates such as you simply, sooner or later, you see who the survivors are. And that is superior, man. I do know what

Alex Ferrari 1:10:37
and it is so true. And I hope I imply, I hope we have now not scared off a complete gaggle of individuals listening to this.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:45
Or your listeners

Alex Ferrari 1:10:46
know, however you already know what that is, however that is the reality of the enterprise. And I’m all the time like, my, my mantra is observe your dream, however Don’t be an fool. And it is, it is like, I’m all in regards to the positivity and the motivation, you have to go for it. But you’ve gotten to concentrate on what’s on the market. And that was the primary function. I even opened up within the movie, hustle and bulletproof screenplay, or bulletproof screenwriting within the first place as a result of I wished this sort of data on the market. Because it is not taught in colleges. It’s usually not in books, it is stuff that you just hear about within the again at drinks at AFM, or in a espresso store. And you by no means hear the entire story know one another. Exactly, you you are fortunate sufficient to overhear a dialog like this and that is why I wished to deliver individuals such as you on the present. So I’m grateful to your honesty and I’m

Heather Hale 1:11:32
grateful that you just’re on the market doing this and I’m not jealous of different ones of your episodes. I imply, they’re nice. So I’m honored to be on right here and I hope I hope I stated stuff that was cathartic to individuals who really feel like idiots since you’re not an fool prefer it’s occurring to the individuals the individuals who bought screwed and that different deal or third technology filmmakers episode i assumed you already know what, they have credit I’d be as killed have and I believed are available in and never that I my nostril hasn’t been kicked in lots of instances. But you see them once more and their patterns you possibly can acknowledge so simply it is not truthful. It sucks recover from it. And no, you bought your self and write nice stuff and do stuff that makes it on the finish of the day price it.

Alex Ferrari 1:12:17
Yes.

Heather Hale 1:12:17
Right. And on the finish of all of this, you did not write some schlock and also you did not throw collectively some piece of shit that another person may have carried out like make it extra worthwhile

Alex Ferrari 1:12:28
with out query and I’ve one final query three of your favourite movies of all time.

Heather Hale 1:12:34
Oh effectively all the time Shawshank Redemption is

Unknown Speaker 1:12:36
oh

Alex Ferrari 1:12:38
it is my prime as effectively.

Heather Hale 1:12:41
One just lately booted from I feel I have to do an inventory the place you’ve gotten the how lengthy they have been on the record Sure Sure. Brand new one is best showmen.

Alex Ferrari 1:12:51
I I actually take pleasure in scripts I cherished it

Heather Hale 1:12:53
cherished that cherished it. And then there is a bunch that might be neck and neck for third and of their would for certain be waking the divine.

Alex Ferrari 1:13:03
I like waking that the vibe is such a extremely little movie. Big fish in there. Yeah, Tim Burton,

Heather Hale 1:13:10
and there is a one. There’s 1,000,000 of them. I’ve an inventory. I did an inventory on my web site prime 10 movies. And at 231 I needed to cease. So now I simply go in and replace the highest 10 however I all the time

Alex Ferrari 1:13:25
inform individuals if you have not seen Shawshank Redemption, or if you do not need for those who do not like Shawshank Redemption, you’re lifeless inside and we will not have a dialog. I’ve but to fulfill somebody who did not like Shawshank Redemption and even when they did in the event that they heard me say these items they in all probability would not admit to it however however each time by the best way anybody listening anytime I get a nasty overview or somebody does not like one thing I do. This is all I google dangerous overview Shawshank Redemption and so they exist and also you learn these items and so they had been from Big, huge reviewers and also you simply sit there going wow.

Heather Hale 1:14:00
Though, Shawshank is a extremely good instance. I’m not gonna say dangerous branding or advertising and marketing. It was dangerous

Alex Ferrari 1:14:06
it was it was dangerous branding horrible.

Heather Hale 1:14:09
To see Shawshank Redemption I’ve no real interest in seeing the jail dropped like zero curiosity. It got here out everybody talked about it. There was no I had no curiosity it took me like a yr and a half to do Shawshank Redemption. And once I did I am unable to let you know what number of instances I’ve seen it in order that that makes me really feel higher once more, dangerous branding dangerous promoting, dangerous advertising and marketing, no matter it was, however on the finish of the day, it did not matter as a result of it was so

Unknown Speaker 1:14:35
good. It is and it is performed 1000 instances like that it

Heather Hale 1:14:39
will not matter if it is poorly branded it will not met all the opposite stuff simply write shit like Shawshank like pictures you she promote seashells on the seashore.

Alex Ferrari 1:14:54
Like Shawshank like Shashank Heather the place can individuals discover you and your work and your Your stuff that you just do.

Heather Hale 1:15:01
Heather Hale calm and Heather, Heather held calm. I believed very long time in the past, simply model new, since you’re gonna have put on a number of hats, proper? And you do not even the 2 books are how you can work the movie and TV markets, which is by focal press, which is a information for content material creators and the opposite is story promoting how you can develop, market and pitch your movie and TV initiatives. And my greatest movie and TV initiatives are forward of me. They are coming, proper you needn’t watch the rest.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:32
Learn and we’re transferring ahead.

Alex Ferrari 1:15:33
Yes, errors had been made. But now we’re transferring ahead. Taken. Heather, it has been an absolute pleasure having you on the present. And thanks for dropping such trustworthy information bombs on the tribe right this moment. So I recognize that

Heather Hale 1:15:45
all by the day and remorse it however I’m my largest fault. And then there’s a lot to decide on between.

Alex Ferrari 1:15:52
Thank you, Heather.