Poor Things editor Yorgos Mavropsaridis, ACE was already a longtime editor when he began collaborating with a younger director named Yorgos Lanthimos. At that time, Lanthimos was solely recognized for doing commercials, however by their third characteristic collectively, 2009’s Dogtooth, the pair started to be acknowledged as a formidable storytelling group. Over a decade later, they might lastly tackle what Mavropsaridis considers their first true studio movie, Searchlight Pictures’ Poor Things.
Poor Things plot abstract
Poor Things tells the story of a younger girl, Bella Baxter, who was introduced again to life by her guardian, the scientist Dr. Godwin Baxter. Initially naïve, Bella was desperate to study in regards to the world round her, albeit underneath Baxter’s safety. Wanting to see extra, she ran off with Duncan Wedderburn, a slick and debauched lawyer, and traveled throughout continents. Free from the prejudices of her occasions, Bella demanded equality and liberation.
In our dialogue with Poor Things editor Yorgos Mavropsaridis, we speak about:
- Polishing up the Ektachrome
- Making a studio movie for the primary time
- Feeling the environment within the chopping room
- Going all “Godard” with ADR
- Ways to make the telling of the story attention-grabbing
Check out The Rough Cut podcast to hearken to this interview.
Editing Poor Things
Matt Feury: With Poor Things, you might be as soon as once more working from a screenplay written by Tony McNamara, who co-wrote The Favourite. But this time, it’s a screenplay tailored from a e-book. Did you learn the unique e-book to arrange for the movie? Did Yorgos Lanthimos ask you to look at any movies for reference?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis, ACE: I did learn it, however solely as a result of I used to be curious. I imagine they did a incredible job within the adaptation. The e-book is totally different. It’s about Bella Baxter, nevertheless it’s narrated by letters. Also, the characters, particularly Dr. Godwin Baxter, are a bit totally different. Godwin is extra prepared to be together with her. There’s an antagonism between Max McCandles and Godwin Baxter about Bella that doesn’t exist within the movie. The character of Godwin Baxter is reworked right into a benevolent monster.
MF: What was your response once you learn the screenplay? Did you could have any questions for Yorgos?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: The solely notice I made was that the character performed by Margaret Qualley was named Victoria. I assumed that is likely to be complicated for the viewers as a result of Victoria Blessington was the title of the lady who turned Bella Baxter. That character turned Felicity. That was my solely contribution.
MF: There have been superficial comparisons to Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein, however when you see the film, you notice there are larger themes at play. How Bella Baxter is created is secondary to how she recreates herself. Did Yorgos say something to you in regards to the themes that he needed to discover and what he needed to say on this movie?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: Mainly, it was this peculiar thought of a girl with a child’s mind. I feel Yorgos needed to discover the way it feels when she begins having her sexual appetites as a teen however within the physique of an older girl. He was excited by that notion of a younger girl experiencing not solely a sexual urge for food however a must study in regards to the world.
Of course, there was no time for her to have all of the restrictions that we placed on ourselves in our civilization. Bella could be very pure. She has a pure mind and it’s experiencing every part because it comes with out the hindrance of societal norms or etiquette. The solely impediment for her is Godwin Baxter, however she simply overcomes that when she says, “I will run away.”
She is a personality that we haven’t seen earlier than. She is so open to experiences, to studying, and she or he goes by lots of phases. Bella is a really fast examine. For instance, when she’s on the cruise, she doesn’t know what a cynic is. Then, after a day or so, she begins appearing like a cynic herself. She says, “You’re standing in my sun.” She learns very quick. The principal theme is Bella Baxter herself and the way she develops.
MF: Bella is evolving. One minute she doesn’t know one thing and the following minute she does. As an editor, was that one thing you needed to be cautious about within the chopping room? Did you must take note of the place Bella ought to be intellectually at sure factors of the movie?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: In a way, we needed to discover it within the modifying room as they discovered it within the capturing as a result of there was lots of improvisation. For instance, within the first cuts of the breakfast scene, I performed round lots as a result of there have been lots of choices. In one choice, Bella climbed up on the desk, teasing Godwin Baxter, or doing different humorous stuff.
Some issues needed to be misplaced in the long run, as a result of the size of the entire movie was necessary. We needed to hold within the primary scenes that gave us the concept Bella was a child initially, exhibiting her following Godwin round, peeing herself, and stuff like that. But different issues needed to be shortened. We needed to flip lots of her growth right into a type of montage sequence. That’s when Max reads his report on her growth to Godwin. By the time Bella meets Duncan Wedderburn, she’s about twelve or fourteen years previous.
By the top, we see her develop right into a full-grown girl. She’s very accountable and has an opinion about every part. She will get married, nevertheless it’s a really sensible marriage. They agree that folks will be mounted, and human beings can get higher. That’s the premise for his or her marriage, a inventive collaboration.
MF: Poor Things has a really distinctive story, however the story will not be the one distinctive factor in regards to the film. The visible language is one thing to see as properly. Let’s talk about the sensible features of the way you made this film. I imagine filming started in August of 2021. You had a movie studio in Budapest. How lengthy did principal pictures go? Where had been you chopping through the manufacturing part?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: I used to be chopping in Athens. We had an excellent group in Budapest and we had the rushes the following day, the black and white and the colour. The solely unfavourable that got here a bit later was the Ektachrome. Bella’s adventures with Weddernburn had been shot on Ektachrome, with an enormous LED wall behind them.
There was lots of materials. There was lots of improvisation. I used to be having fun with what I used to be doing, however an meeting is an meeting. It’s a means so that you can study the fabric, to see the entire variations and potentialities that exist.
Yorgos and I met up about two weeks after they completed capturing in Europe. We didn’t watch the entire movie directly. It was not doable. It was round 4 hours lengthy, so we took it part by part.
Usually, the way in which I work with Yorgos is that we meet and watch twenty or thirty minutes of footage, or as a lot as he can bear. Yorgos at all times feels unhealthy in regards to the first reduce. He gave me notes throughout this screening. For instance, the primary time we noticed Godwin Baxter, we had about ten photographs. Yorgos instructed me, “He has to be sweet. He has to be a master with a nice heart.” That gave me an thought of the way to proceed with the event of the characters. That’s how we normally work.
After that, I took perhaps 4 or 5 days to work on my own, after which we met once more. Yorgos is a director whom I like lots. I used to be impressed by the aesthetics of the movie. It was many steps forward of the rest. This was his first studio movie, you understand? Everything was constructed.
Also, Yorgos provides me time. He creates the appropriate setting for us to work creatively. There isn’t any exterior interference. We normally attain a degree the place, after a protracted course of, we will begin exhibiting the movie to 5 or 6 people who we belief. We’re within the room with them and we expertise the movie with them. Their notes and reactions inform the modifications that we make. I feel it took us about six months to complete the edit.
“Yorgos gives me time. He creates the right environment for us to work creatively.”
MF: I feel anyone could be pleased to be modifying in Athens, Greece. Do you wish to be on location or is it higher so that you can be faraway from manufacturing?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: It’s significantly better to be eliminated. The solely time I went with manufacturing was after we did The Lobster in Cork, Ireland. And truthfully, it was not an excellent expertise.
When you’re on location, you might be influenced by the setting. Your opinion and your aesthetics get influenced. Also, once you’re with manufacturing, your job turns into, “Hey, the shooting stopped because it rained. Can we make an edit of this scene to see if it’s okay?” It’s not that inventive. It took me some time to get again to what I needed to do. I needed to discover myself once more. I needed to rediscover my tempo. I shouldn’t be on set.
MF: How do you wish to arrange your chopping room? What do you do to arrange?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: Honestly, we simply want what we used on Dogtooth. It was a easy factor. We did lease a spot for this movie. Lanthimos had his personal workplace with a projector and an enormous display. But we used to only work on an enormous plasma TV with an iMac and an assistant. That’s it, nothing extra. But the assistant was very succesful. He may remedy any technical issues simply.
Yorgos could be very explicit about how we see the movie after we edit. It’s color-corrected already. The colours that we see later are significantly better, after all, however the thought is there.
“Yorgos is very particular about how we see the film when we edit.”
When we work, my assistant does lots of work with the sound as a result of we have to hear and perceive what’s going on there. We repair lots of issues, like all of the carriages round and the environment. Also, all of the visible results, even when they had been finished within the Avid or in After Effects, needed to be completed. Some skies needed to be added. The animals needed to be there too.
We needed to discover the appropriate animals as a result of these had been truly filmed. They weren’t CGI. They had been photographs of stay animals stitched collectively, so we needed to discover the appropriate animal mixture to present to the individuals in VFX. But we had an amazing VFX group. We may ship them photographs earlier than the edit was completed and ask, “Can we see these animals together?” and they’d present us. Sometimes, we might even ship the sound to Johnnie Burn and say, “Please, Johnnie, can you try this idea with the sound design?” We had the liberty to check out totally different sound designs within the edit. We did the identical factor with the music.
MF: For monitoring sound in your chopping room, do you wish to work with simply stereo? Do you favor left, middle, proper? 5.1?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: In the chopping room, it’s easy. It must be stereo. But all of the atmospheric sounds need to be there, the dialog must be cleaned. The noises taking place within the background need to be added. We wish to already be coming into the movie’s world within the chopping room. There can also be this incredible piece of kit that we use. Blackmagic makes this little field that exhibits you precisely what’s there. It’s nice.
MF: Philosophically, do you method the job as, “My role is to create the best story. So I don’t need to do too many temp visual effects or sound design.” Or do you suppose, “No, I have to do some basic color grading, effects, and sound design.”
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: Yes, it must be finished as a result of Lanthimos doesn’t wish to think about how issues is likely to be. We have to truly be on the planet. So, we do add sounds. It didn’t occur a lot on this movie, however lots of The Favourite was edited with the sound in thoughts. We needed to have the sound to create that environment. In this movie, when Bella goes out for the primary time, wanting on the roofs of London, we needed to fill that environment.
MF: You’ve talked about Dr. Godwin Baxter a couple of occasions, performed by Willem Dafoe. Willem has lots of prosthetics on his face to create the character of Godwin Baxter. Did that hinder his supply of dialog in any respect? Did you must do lots of ADR for him?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: Not in any respect. Lanthimos hates ADR. There’s an thought from Godard that you just can not separate the physique from the soul. So, we attempt to by no means use it. We didn’t need to do ADR on this movie as a result of we filmed in a sound studio. The dialog was clear.
But we strive to not use it even in essentially the most troublesome circumstances. I bear in mind one shot in The Killing of a Sacred Deer that came about underneath a bridge. The sound was very troublesome, however we had to make use of the sync sound.
MF: Poor Things was shot on movie. I imagine The Favourite was shot on movie as properly, however The Lobster was shot digitally. Was there a particular motive why Yorgos needed to shoot Poor Things on movie?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: He needed to shoot on movie after the finances acquired higher. He at all times needed to shoot on movie. The Lobster was low-budget, so he couldn’t afford it. Otherwise, he would have shot on movie. Even after we began, the primary movie we labored on collectively, Kinetta, was 16mm. Dogtooth was shot on movie as properly, and anamorphic. It was a matter of aesthetics for him to make use of movie on a regular basis.
MF: Does capturing movie have an effect on the variety of cameras that he makes use of or how a lot footage he shoots?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: Not on this one. He by no means used greater than two cameras directly. But he at all times does the identical variety of takes. I’d say he averages round ten or twelve takes per shot and every setup is normally 4 or 5, perhaps seven setups.
It was a big-budget movie for us and his choices had been primarily aesthetic. For instance, he does lots of analysis about which lenses he desires to make use of and how much unfavourable will work finest. The Ektachrome was for a selected scene and the opposite negatives had been for others. The black and white was chosen for the gothic environment initially. So, it’s primarily aesthetic causes that dictate how the movie goes to be shot.
MF: Does Lanthimos offer you lots of freedom within the edit? Or does he like to stay very particularly to the script?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: Oh no, he doesn’t edit whereas he’s capturing. He respects the continuity of time and house. The actor has to say all of his strains in each setup, each time, even in a close-up.
Also, he does lots of sophisticated actions. He tried lots of new concepts on this movie, other than his typical ones, the fisheye and all that. He did lots of zoom-outs and lateral monitoring photographs, and that gave us lots of protection. His découpage could be very intelligent. It provides you a lot concepts. But after all, we attempt to be easy. We strive to not do lots of chopping when it’s not wanted. We solely do it when it’s wanted. Long photographs are typically adopted by montages. There’s a recreation performed between when to edit and when to not.
“We try not to do a lot of cutting when it’s not needed. We only do it when it’s needed.”
MF: How lengthy did post-production take?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: We edited for about six months. During that point, among the VFX needed to be despatched and tried out. The totally different animal combos took a little bit little bit of time to work out. We labored on an enormous display. It was solely me and Yorgos. We completed a couple of month earlier than the Venice Film Festival.
MF: You already talked about among the very attention-grabbing visuals within the movie, just like the fisheye and the black and white. What was the reasoning behind when to go to paint or when to go to black and white?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: I feel the essential motive was that the primary a part of the movie, which has a gothic environment, ought to be in black and white. Then, after we go together with Bella and uncover the world, it turns into this explosion of colour. It’s not simply colour, it’s an explosion of colour. That was the essential thought.
We did make a slight change to the start of the movie. There had been two choices we may have began with. We may have began with the black-and-white photographs of Bella taking part in the piano. Or, there was the opposite choice of seeing any person falling from a bridge. That was a incredible shot the place the digicam began behind a girl and we used music to comply with her right into a close-up of the again of her head, after which she fell.
We thought that the start created a thriller and expectation for the viewers, and it was a pleasant option to point out a falling of the physique artistically. It additionally created an excellent opposition when Goodwin Baxter revealed to Max what occurred. Intercutting the black-and-white footage and the colour collectively was a pleasant option to present the 2 atmospheres.
The Ektachrome was for aesthetic and technical causes. There was an LED display behind them for these scenes, and that inventory created a pleasant aesthetic that set it other than the opposite components of the movie that had been shot in colour.
MF: What in regards to the fisheye lens? What was the reasoning behind that?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: It’s his type. I can solely inform you the place we used it. I had the chance to make use of it in lots of scenes, however I at all times attempt to discover causes to incorporate it.
For instance, the primary time we used it was after the close-up of Godwin. I assumed it is likely to be a pleasant standpoint for him. Other occasions, you wish to present one thing to the viewers as if they’re wanting by a keyhole. Sometimes I used it when there was one thing not-so-realistic taking place. In the dance, for instance, when Duncan hits the opposite man, we reduce to this huge fisheye shot. I assumed it was a great way to current the scene.
You should perceive that Lanthimos likes the shape lots. The edit will not be just like the script. We want to seek out methods to make the telling of the story attention-grabbing. That is our method.
MF: The digicam itself could be very lively. Does lots of digicam motion make it extra of a problem to seek out the place that you just wish to reduce?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: I at all times like the way in which Lanthimos works. When I met him, I used to be already a longtime editor in mainstream movies. But he confirmed me a brand new means of seeing movies and a brand new option to formulate movie language.
I started to see the digicam because the consciousness of the director who experiences what is occurring. That’s the way in which we see it. It’s not descriptive as a lot because it transports you into the internal world of the movie. Not to the outside, however to the inside of the movie. Lanthimos additionally likes to shoot some scenes in sluggish movement. He’s finished it in different movies, and it’s at all times enjoyable for me to mess around and discover the appropriate small second to make use of it.
MF: Where was a lot of the VFX work in Poor Things? What issues had been you doing in visible results?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: We mounted all of the skies. We had been in a studio, so we needed to put in all of the skies. There had been lots of arrays that needed to be taken out.
Mainly, it was the animals. They had been shot in real-time. They weren’t CGI. For instance, there’s a shot the place Bella chases after Godwin Baxter and we see them go previous a man strolling with an animal that’s each a canine and a duck fused collectively. That was a fusion of various photographs the place the man walks previous with a canine and once more with a duck.
There’s one other shot the place Max is mendacity down and there’s a hen/pig on prime of him. There had been many doable combos for that one. There was a cat, there was a duck. But we needed to discover which mixture of photographs matched the most effective. Then, we might ship each photographs to Union VFX in London to sew the animals collectively.
The problem was to seek out the appropriate mixture of animals. There had been lots of totally different choices. We had all types of animals round. We needed to discover the funniest ones or essentially the most irreverent, and we had to ensure they may very well be stitched collectively correctly.
The Ektachrome scenes didn’t want a lot work. The LED display background was already there. We simply needed to watch if the ocean waves needed to transfer. The ships had been huge two-meter-long fashions, so we needed to place them and so they needed to create all of the backgrounds.
The movie additionally has a couple of VFX-heavy photographs for the title playing cards of the totally different chapters. We had these photographs, however we needed to discover the appropriate photographs of Bella to place in there. But all the opposite components, just like the mind, had been there already. We simply needed to mix them within the meeting after which ship them to be correctly labored on by the VFX individuals.
MF: I’ve heard that Yorgos provides you music to work with forward of time.
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: It’s true. In our earlier movie as much as The Favourite, we used classical music. We didn’t have a composer. Poor Things was the primary time he used music from Jerskin Fendrix. The music was composed eight months earlier than the capturing began. So, the themes had been already there.
I don’t use the music initially, although. It distracts you. It takes you to totally different locations. You don’t want that. You must concentrate on the performances or the tempo with out music. After that, music comes. Of course, that’s the time after we deconstruct the movie. We break it aside, and music might help us do this. It provides us the tempo.
For instance, within the scene the place Godwin Baxter explains Bella’s scenario to Max, the tempo of his presentation is a mixture of the dialog and the music. They each dictate the size of the photographs.
Since we had theme music already, we typically added it in to suit a selected scenario. Sometimes, the identical theme would play twice in the identical scene, nevertheless it needed to be a little bit totally different the second time we heard it. So, we might ship the scene to Jerskin and say, “This is the situation, can you work on that?”
It was a reasonably intelligent option to work as a result of you may edit the music. You can change issues, you may punctuate one thing with the music. You can edit the music identical to you may an image. In the top, it must be despatched again to Jerskin after which he refines it. The thought, although, is there. The themes are there.
MF: Earlier, you talked about one in every of my favourite scenes from the movie, the dance struggle sequence in Lisbon. Does Yorgos offer you storyboards or animatics or any type of previs to construct that, or is that simply you and the footage?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: It’s simply me and the footage, however the thought is at all times there. Dancing is one in every of Yorgos’ emblems. We had it in Dogtooth, we had it in The Favourite as properly. But the edit is at all times totally different.
In Poor Things, it needed to be from Bella’s standpoint. She all of the sudden feels exuberant. She desires to exit and do loopy issues. So, we needed to comply with her motion. Also, the thought of the choreography was there, however we had to focus on the struggle. It’s a microcosm of the entire movie. Somebody tries to manage her and she or he reacts. That’s why all these actions are there.
We needed to tone down the choreography. The first edit, I bear in mind, was properly finished. People had been dancing round fantastically, however we missed the purpose, which was Bella. The level was Bella Baxter preventing over who’s in management. She’s very aggressive in the long run. She throws a glass of water and it cuts on to them kissing. That modifications the temper and surprises the viewers.
MF: Mark Ruffalo performs Duncan Wedderburn. It’s a really humorous, terrific efficiency. But when do you play up the comedy versus the drama? There are some very darkish occasions for Bella on this film.
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: It’s true. It’s at all times an enormous problem to stability all these totally different feelings in all of Yorgos’ movies. This one was not as troublesome because the others, though Bella went by lots of phases. We needed to be true to this character and likewise to this primarily optimistic feeling. Even the darkish emotions will not be as darkish as they’re in our different movies.
“Even the dark feelings are not as dark as they are in our other films.”
Bella has a optimistic opinion about human beings, though the character performed by Jerrod Carmichael within the boat could be very pessimistic. This movie will not be as darkish as, say, Dogtooth or The Killing of a Sacred Deer. It has a lighter tonality that agrees with Bella’s character. She is at all times pure. Even when she goes to the bordello, she’s experiencing issues as a matter of extra. It will not be a darkish feeling for her.
I feel a extra attribute shot is when she’s making love with one in every of her shoppers on the bordello. She experiences a combination of worry and pleasure. It’s at all times blended to her as a result of she’s normally very stoic. She simply experiences issues as they arrive. She doesn’t have any preconceived notions about something. She takes the unhealthy with the great.
MF: I’m stunned to listen to that there was lots of improv on this movie. Do you want that? Does it offer you lots of decisions to work? Or is it more difficult as a result of it’s tougher to seek out precisely the place to take the story?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: I prefer it as a result of you could have all these alternatives. We have all types of those phases we now have to undergo within the edit. We know that in some unspecified time in the future we now have to take out issues, nevertheless it’s a means for us to find the internal core of the movie. In the top, we simply hold the components that inform the tales merely, with out making the viewers lag behind us. We wish to be with the viewers. We like them to know all of the issues which are taking place.
Specifically, we wish the viewers to benefit from the current second. Film is an artwork of the current. We need to be sure that the viewers enjoys and understands what is occurring.
“Film is an art of the present.”
Of course, we wish to give them a while to consider what is occurring. But we don’t need that to maintain them from experiencing what is occurring in the intervening time. Those issues shouldn’t intervene. They shouldn’t intervene with experiencing the second. That’s one thing that you consider afterward.
MF: I already instructed you what my favourite scene from the movie is. Do you could have a favourite scene?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: I just like the dance lots. I just like the scene when Godwin tells Max the story of Bella Baxter. I just like the Alexandria scene too. There had been so many good issues to look at and be absorbed by on this movie.
MF: It’s like asking which child is your favourite.
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: Even the scenes we needed to take out had been incredible, however we needed to take them out. It was so nice to comply with this character from being a child to turning into a grown girl. That process was essential to me.
MF: Looking at it a distinct means, what was your greatest editorial problem on this movie?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: I feel my greatest problem was maintaining Bella Baxter’s spirit of pureness and delight alive. For instance, she has scenes which are a bit extra specific. We needed to discover a option to be truthful to what we noticed with out being puritanical about it. We had been making an attempt to make the viewers really feel the simplicity of being bare or having fun with what life brings you, even when it’s a sexual factor or a foul factor or it makes you cry. That was the largest problem, to make the viewer really feel precisely as Bella Baxter does.
But in that sense, there’s no earlier character that Bella will be primarily based on. She is completely new, so the movie needed to be finished in a means that persuaded the viewers to let their inhibitions fall away and luxuriate in every part because it got here.
MF: You simply did a movie that was directed by Phedon Papamichael. Most individuals know of his work as a cinematographer, however he additionally directs every so often. Has your in depth expertise as an editor given you any want to be a director?
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: Not in any respect. I’ve recognized I used to be an editor since my time in movie college. I used to be an editor from the primary semester and everyone knew me as an editor. Well, they didn’t see me that a lot as a result of, in my idiosyncrasy, I’m not really easy with lots of people round me.
MF: As a fan of your work, I’m glad you caught with modifying and I hope you retain doing it.
Yorgos Mavropsaridis: Yes, after all. I see my friends working of their previous age and I’m pleased. I hope I can do it for the following ten years.
