There Was, There Was Not When she first began filming within the Republic of Artsakh—a small “breakaway” state the place most residents have been ethnically Armenian, however lived underneath the management of Azerbaijan—Emily Mkrtichian was planning to painting the pivotal roles native ladies play 30 years after experiencing a violent battle. But her challenge was thrust in a totally totally different path when the small sovereign state grew to become besieged by sudden battle as soon as once more.
Taking its title from the opening line of most Armenian fairy tales, Mkrtichian’s characteristic debut is fascinated with the preservation of a spot that not exists. For the primary half of the movie, we merely observe the each day pursuits, musings and aspirations of 4 Artsakh ladies. There’s Sosé, a martial artist who is set to win Olympic gold at some point; Siranush, who runs for political workplace regardless of dismissively misogynistic attitudes; Sveta, chief of the primary all-women troupe of de-miners, who rigorously take away landmines left over from the final battle; and Gayane, founding father of the nation’s solely Women’s Center. When Azerbaijan begins its marketing campaign of ethnic cleaning, their lives are completely altered; what by no means wavers, nevertheless, is every lady’s dedication to what’s most essential of their private lives and communities. Some be part of the entrance strains of battle, others are displaced with their households, few hunker down and refuse to desert their houses.
“I want to give people a way to understand this place that we no longer have access to,” Mkrtichian instructed me after I requested about particular viewers takeaways she hopes for. “Something that is happening to many places in the world right now. And I want art to be a beacon of hope for us in these experiences, and I want women’s experiences not to be lost to the historical record.”
Mkrtichian and I spoke a number of days earlier than the screening of There Was, There Was Not at DOC NYC. The following dialog covers why she didn’t go for a “traditional” verite method, the challenges of the edit and the fairy tales that the filmmaker is presently sharing along with her little one.
Filmmaker: One of the movie’s central parallels entails the liminal framing of Armenian fairy tales. Can you elaborate on what makes these folktales distinctive inside this area? Do you could have any specific favorites out of your childhood?
Mkrtichian: I feel Armenian folktales are usually not essentially totally different from a number of older cultures’ fairy tales, in that they’re meant to show you one thing. In Armenian tradition, a number of the info that we discover most essential to cross on [is how to] survive on the earth. So, a number of our fairy tales are literally fairly darkish, which a number of different cultures’ are, too. In the movie, I exploit this guide of fairy tales by this well-known author, [Hovhannes] Toumanian. One of my very favourite little tales in it, which I’m studying to my son proper now, is about this sheep mother and her daughter. The mother goes out daily to get milked within the fields after which comes again. It’s principally about this wolf coming and knocking on the door and pretending to be the mother and the little child nearly letting them in. That’s a factor that occurs in Armenian fairy tales: you must be very intelligent. I used to be pregnant whereas we have been enhancing the movie, and I used to be desirous about the truth that I used to be making a movie that may be actually scary for a younger child. I take into consideration after I can share my work with my little one, which made it felt essential for me to cross on this story to the subsequent era. There’s some info there that may show you how to survive, if that is sensible.
Filmmaker: Yeah, I do know you latterly had a toddler, and I ponder how that have has impacted your relationship to this movie and your cultural heritage?
Mkrtichian: My nice grandparents have been displaced through the genocide, then my grandparents have been displaced. My dad and mom moved to the U.S., so there’s this [family] historical past of shifting by means of lands, which I all the time knew about rising up. But the central trauma of the genocide for my nice grandparents felt like one thing that was actually far-off from me as a child, and whilst an grownup after I went to Armenia. When the battle began, I can particularly bear in mind the sensation of one thing being ignited in my DNA. I actually suppose that helped me survive the conditions that I used to be in. Because I received pregnant after I was making this movie, I used to be considering rather a lot about what it means to cross on a narrative and the significance of tradition, language and why we inform the tales that we do. I feel this occurs in a number of cultures that have some kind of central trauma: you need to ensure that tradition and language survive into the longer term. It grew to become actually essential for me to talk Armenian with my child and have them expertise this place, as a result of I don’t know the way lengthy it’s going to be round or how lengthy we’re going to have entry to it.
Filmmaker: An endearing aspect of the movie is your topics’ fixed consciousness of the digital camera, particularly your presence behind it. Did you ever attempt to encourage them to disregard their being filmed, or was that by no means a priority of yours?
Mkrtichian: When I first began making the movie, I actually envisioned it as an observational, conventional verite documentary. The one exception to that being Sosé, as a result of Sosé doesn’t observe any guidelines [laughs]. She is a star in her personal proper in her personal life, so she likes interacting with the digital camera. But the thought of myself being a really particular, embodied particular person behind the digital camera grew to become a vital thought through the edit. We labored actually laborious to develop it all through the movie in natural methods. It was when the battle broke out that this concept of a filmmaker who’s distanced from their topic or “a fly on the wall” grew to become nearly unethical to me, utterly unattainable. It felt essential to acknowledge that there was somebody behind the digital camera who cared very deeply for the individuals on display screen.
Filmmaker: Were there every other potential topics that you simply wished to observe, however it simply didn’t work out?
Mkrtichian: You know, there weren’t. By the time I hit 4 individuals, I used to be like, “Okay, I need to stop.” Choosing who can be within the movie was this actually natural technique of spending a number of time on this place, assembly individuals, speaking to them and being impressed or drawn to totally different ladies for numerous causes. Two of the ladies within the movie have been mates of mates. Sosé I met by means of a bunch of youngsters that I used to be educating a movie workshop to. They have been obsessive about Sosé, and naturally I grew to become obsessive about Sosé. I met Sveta as a result of I made a brief movie in regards to the first group of ladies who went out to be deminers in Artsakh in 2015. Each of those 4 ladies appeared to embody this totally different however essential factor about this place, some thought of power and neighborhood.
Filmmaker: To that time, the presence of males is extremely muted each time attainable. They seem throughout dinnertime, on FaceTime calls or within the viewers at sports activities matches, however are by no means actually platformed. How did you navigate this?
Mkrtichian: We’ve talked about how the digital camera is that this proxy for myself, and what I used to be enthusiastic about was these 4 ladies. What you see within the movie is extra a results of what I assumed was essentially the most fascinating a part of the story. The intentional half can be that I used to be actually feeling two issues. One, they stay in a society that already offers a lot consideration to males, so I used to be envisioning them watching the movie later and actually seeing themselves because the protagonist. The different half, particularly as soon as the battle hit, was that each story within the media was targeted on the boys who have been combating and [portrayed] the ladies and kids as fleeing victims. The ladies that I used to be seeing weren’t victims in that sense. They have been lively, working and doing simply as a lot combating as any of the boys have been on the entrance line. They simply held their very own story with no need to reference the boys round them.
Filmmaker: You have been capturing for at the very least a 12 months earlier than Azerbaijan started its marketing campaign of ethnic cleaning within the area. Your authentic intention for the movie was to discover the function of ladies on this society after the battle, however what conversations did you could have together with your topics and collaborators as battle grew to become inevitable?
Mkrtichian: I used to be truly capturing for 3 years earlier than the battle began. When battle began, I used to be truly in Artsakh filming what I assumed have been the final scenes that I wanted to return and edit a movie. So, that was clearly very surprising. I feel it additionally introduced a really tough a part of the edit, as a result of I used to be targeted on the legacy of battle in these first three years of filming, however on no account on the concept it may occur once more. I didn’t imagine that it was going to occur, and neither did they. I feel once you stay in a spot like that, you must imagine that it’s not gonna occur once more. There’s type of a double-consciousness that exists round getting right down to the enterprise of your on a regular basis life and dealing in direction of a optimistic aim. Especially within the wake of the battle, I spotted how invisible these ladies felt. There was no document of their work. No one else was documenting what they have been doing. All of the methods they risked their lives and labored through the battle have been simply erased. If nobody paperwork it, it principally doesn’t exist in historical past. We talked rather a lot about how the battle had been lined internationally—what tales have been deemed “worthy” of the information—and the way the movie may do it in a different way.
Filmmaker: How did you sift by means of that preliminary three years of footage and resolve what to focus on earlier than the battle?
Mkrtichian: One of the most important creative choices of the movie is to offer ample time and house to the Artsakh that existed not solely in reference to battle. There’s 40 minutes of the movie the place you get to essentially stay a life in that place, expertise it with the ladies and perceive their hopes and goals throughout that point. The enhancing course of was a problem as a result of lots of people assumed that the start would simply be a condensed prelude to the “real” story, which is the battle. It took me a very long time working in collaboration with totally different individuals to concretely perceive what I wished to say about these ladies and their tales, to essentially insist on a starting that wasn’t simply foreshadowing a later battle. When we have been reducing scenes from that first three years of fabric, I prioritized what they actually cared about, lit them up and confirmed the wonder, the difficult life that could possibly be lived in a spot whose existence was precarious.
Filmmaker: It’s nice that the primary half of the movie focuses on their lives, as a result of it makes it that rather more devastating to know the ramifications of the preliminary battle and its reemergence.
Mkrtichian: It’s a payoff that you must be affected person for. I feel the traditional approach to have began this movie can be with bombs, a wink of, “Don’t worry, we’ll get to the action.” But it’s essential to be affected person with these ladies and their lives within the first half in order that the second half is extra significant.
Filmmaker: Was it laborious to resolve when to cease capturing?
Mkrtichian: I imply, for years I used to be holding onto that digital camera as a approach to maintain out hope. I used to be simply strolling round with a digital camera, ready for one thing to occur. I had this sense of a deep duty to elucidate this to the world, to the ladies, to my child. Unfortunately, the ethnic cleaning of Artsakh occurred once we have been enhancing the movie. I used to be three months pregnant. I feel that was the second the place I spotted we have been on the finish of the method. That was additionally the second the place I turned to this concept of storytelling as a light-weight in a single’s neighborhood when instances are the darkest.
Filmmaker: Have you seen any of those ladies since finishing the movie? Will they’ve the chance to see it?
Mkrtichian: We have the Golden Apricot Film Festival, which is the most important competition within the area. It was screening within the regional competitors, and we made all tickets free to anybody who had been displaced from Artsakh, as a result of most individuals from Artsakh had come to Armenia at that time. The halls have been simply full of individuals from Artsakh. You walked out of these screenings and there was not a dry eye. I used to be there with my two-month-old child for 3 hours after each screening, simply speaking with individuals. All 4 ladies have been there as nicely, and so they received to be in neighborhood and have discussions with individuals about this place. So many individuals got here as much as me and stated, “This is something that I’ve been trying not to think about, and coming here gave me a way to actually remember this place in community with all of these people.” That was so cathartic for me. Those screenings made every little thing worthwhile. It was the best of what may have occurred for the movie. The movie ended up profitable the Fipresci Prize there. It felt like not only a recognition of me, however a recognition of them on this place. It was a bittersweet celebration, clearly, however one thing that all of us appreciated having the ability to do collectively.
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