Alex Ferrari 0:03
Enjoy at this time’s episode with visitor host Dave Bullis.
Dave Bullis 1:48
My subsequent visitor is an award successful screenwriter, producer, writer and professor. He truly wrote co wrote the cook dinner the chilly comedy Don’t inform mother the babysitter’s useless, starring Christina Applegate, which I at all times say is a ceremony of passage for teenagers of the 80s and 90s. Because I believe we have all been there in some way, with a babysitter dies and we gotta cover the physique. You know what I’m speaking about. But he is additionally written for Doogie Howser, this secret world of Alex Mack, MTV. He’s additionally produced a ton of various stuff. And he at the moment runs the MFA and writing tv program at UCLA for the, for the theater, movie and TV division. And now he is additionally written this e-book. He’s additionally written for different books. For occasion, like 101, issues I discovered in movie college, the screenwriters roadmap. So his newest e-book is known as TV writing on demand, which is what the competition is about. And it is all simply in regards to the medium of TV, how common TV is changing into all of the totally different packages on the market. It’s a reasonably attention-grabbing e-book, I’ve truly I truly acquired a sophisticated copy of it. It’s a very, actually attention-grabbing learn. And what we talked about on this episode is what I maintain telling folks, after they ask for screenwriting recommendation, I am going, everyone needs to see you may have a TV pilot of some form, as a result of that is the place all the cash is true now. And that is the place all of the hits are proper now. TV is, is is certainly it. It’s the preferred have been golden age. But it is also very diversified. Because there’s so many alternative mediums at this episodic format, as straightforward as coming as to if or not it’s YouTube, Hulu, Netflix, no matter. So with out additional ado, Neil Landau,
Neil Landau 3:18
Well, I type of began off as a studying place. I imply, it truly begins with a whole lot of what all my books are about character improvement, about builds from empathy, so and filling emotional voids, you understand, a lot of what characters undergo. And what we see, even in comedies are characters who’ve voids of their lives and deficits and issues in the middle of the story, fill these voids. So my father died once I was six years outdated, of a coronary heart assault. He was taking part in basketball with some associates. He collapsed on the basketball court docket, he died within the ambulance on the way in which to the hospital, a coronary heart assault. And so from that age ahead, I had a really wealthy fantasy life. I used to be at all times studying little scenes and performs and desirous to disappear on displaying off simply to type of, you understand, use my, my lack of my father. So I used to be writing performs from fourth grade, I began writing little performs and skits and efficiency. And I truly thought I wished to change into a playwright. Me in all probability on the time, simply because I shared the identify with Neil Simon, who was essentially the most well-known playwright on the time, and I cherished his work. And so I believed I might write performs and be like Neil Simon, I did not assume nicely, he already existed and I’ve to create my very own voice. I simply thought I’ll simply copy him and, you understand, be the subsequent meal. The subsequent well-known Neil playwright, however being raised by a single mother. We at all times had monetary issues. And so I began to assume, nicely, it is very troublesome to make a dwelling as a playwright and I knew what it was prefer to develop up You know, financially deprived. So I began to consider nicely, and so they knew some individuals who had gone to movie college and who had written films and tv. And I did not know when you can succeed, which, after all, is a giant reward you could truly make not solely make a dwelling wage, however you’ll be able to truly make some huge cash, which might give me safety. And so I segwayed from writing performs into I went to UCLA Film School and began writing screenplays. And on the time, considered one of my finest associates rising up, Tara Ison, who was one yr behind me, at UCLA, we went to really elementary college, junior excessive, which is now a center college, highschool and UCLA collectively. So we have been finest associates for a very very long time, we determined to accomplice up and write scripts collectively. Because I believed she was the neatest, most gifted particular person I knew. And she felt equally towards me. So we wrote a couple of screenplays whereas we have been going to high school. And one yr after I graduated, we stored writing, you understand, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, we would write and Sunday afternoon paint all day. And the primary couple of weeks simply caught in a drawer, they weren’t excellent. The third one turned do not among the many infants. And we thought we would be fortunate, simply, you understand, to have anyone ever seen us. But that script, truly, there was a bidding battle at three studios. And it was a type of, you understand, massive spec scripts gross sales from the 80s 1987, the place our lives simply modified dramatically. Because we went, you understand, I went from making $18,000 a yr to creating a whole bunch of 1000s of {dollars} a yr. And then we have been type of off and operating, in that that is type of how it began simply from, you understand, escaping life, match their wealthy fantasy life. And then simply dabbling and considering perhaps we will truly do that as a profession. And that was the very first thing. And when you promote an unique spec script, or unique pilot, that actually creates a lot warmth and buzz that you might truly construct a profession on that when you can ship once more, you understand, after that if it wasn’t only a fluke. So that was type of my inspiration and the way it began. And with, do not inform mother, one of many issues Tara and I each had in frequent is our we each have been raised primarily from damaged households. And she was she her father did not die, however she was primarily raised by a single mom. We additionally each look extraordinarily younger for our ages on the time. And folks at all times used to ask if our agent needed to give us a journey to the assembly, as a result of they did not imagine we had our driver’s licenses but and issues like that. So we would prefer to additionally the thought of taking part in with age, you understand, and in, we wrote one script a few darkish, you understand, highschool who was a lot older and posing as a highschool pupil. And then with Don’t inform mother, we considered the thought of anyone who truly might look older, who might go into the grownup world and fake to be an grownup. So that was additionally a part of the type of a theme that we have been exploring. And that is type of the way it all acquired, that is how our profession actually acquired began.
Dave Bullis 8:17
You know, so while you have been writing, you understand, do not inform mother the babysitter’s useless. You know, because you’re principally launched your profession while you have been scripting this, did you truly I imply, have been you while you’re writing it? Or perhaps while you’re completed? Did you truly say, You know what, I believe that is, you understand, a homerun shot. I believe that is, you understand, your me like I believe that is going to be Yeah.
Neil Landau 8:42
We would jokingly, we’d jokingly say that one of many issues that’s so totally different between me and Tara is I are typically very optimistic about every thing and pragmatic and Jonathan’s be extra cynical. And I believe she at all times thought, Well, who is aware of? We might we might by no means get anyplace. But I felt the factor about Dustin a second was totally different was that we had a lot enjoyable writing it, there have been so many instances that we’d simply, you understand, be laughing hysterically. And we stored we’d say, we do not know if that is any good, however we predict it is, I believe it is humorous. We’re having a whole lot of enjoyable writing it. We nicely truly that is even higher a part of the story. So on the time. I used to be at all times additionally curious about writing for tv. So I did my internship at advantage MPM enterprises, which was marriage Elmore, and grant Tinker’s firm. And this a present that I simply cherished a lot, which actually influenced every thing in tv and in my life with business blues, and that was the present that I interned on essentially the most and, you understand, I used to be on set and I might watch dailies and I might get to see all of the revisions and it was only a nice expertise simply to watch and be round that present you
Alex Ferrari 10:01
We’ll be proper again after a phrase from our sponsor. And now again to the present.
Neil Landau 10:10
But one of many different issues they did in re internship was, he delivered mail across the CBS lot. This was CBS Radford that which is in Studio City, proper close to the place I reside now truly. And I we ship mail and a little bit bicycle, one of many folks I delivered mail to was Beth Ochsner, who on the time was senior vice chairman of comedy improvement. And she graciously agreed to learn a script. And she ended up leaving MGM and changing into a literary agent. And she joined a giant on the time, there was a really massive literary company referred to as Broder Kerlan internet affair, which now not exists, it was I believe they have been absorbed by both I see them. God, I do not keep in mind, they have been undoubtedly purchased out. Death ended up leaving. But the purpose of the story is finest tickets on as an agent, and we have been hip pocket shoppers, that means for these of you do not know, however you understand, she did not join. But she stated, I’ve curiosity in you. You’re you guys are younger and gifted. And I like I like what I’m studying up to now. So let me ship your stuff. Let me simply informally signify you and see if we will get anyplace. She was primarily representing sitcom writers to see on the time, everyone was studying spec episodes of TV reveals. That’s how you bought employees. People weren’t actually studying unique pilots. So Tara, and I wrote a spec for the Golden Girls. And we thought it was nice. Got it to tub and she or he stated she was too busy to deal with us anymore, was the unhealthy information. But the excellent news is he had taken on my affiliate, who would deal with us extra of a junior agent and that they have been going to signify us. So this new youthful Junior agent who got here in, she stated, Well, what else do you may have, as a result of she did not actually like Golden Girls. And we had simply completed the Don’t inform mother scripts, which on the time was referred to as the true world. That was the unique title. And so we acquired her the script. And she hated it. She hated it a lot. She stated, I believe that is the type of script it’s best to simply put away and by no means present anybody, as a result of it’s going to truly hurt your careers. She stated you do not need this to be, you understand, consultant of your work. So what we did, as a result of we’re writers and neurotic, and we believed her. So I put the script away. It was printed out scripts. So you understand, wasn’t even on a pc, you understand, again then. We have been utilizing early variations of computer systems, however largely we have been nonetheless typing our scripts. I put it below a pair of footwear in my closet. And we stopped lacking our writing hours. And we have been simply very discouraged. And however considered one of my associates from UCLA is a man named David cap, who has change into an enormous, large Rewriter. You know, he wrote the unique Spider Man with Tobey Maguire, and he wrote Jurassic Park one and two and panic battle the world, you understand, on and on and on. I imply, he he is change into in all probability essentially the most profitable screenwriter, definitely financially by way of Buxa field workplace, I believe ever. He was over at my condo, and he was asking about that script. And he stated, Whatever occurred with that script? And I stated, Oh, it is horrible. We simply put it away. And he stated, Well, how have you learnt it is horrible? And I stated, nicely, as a result of this agent instructed us it was horrible, and never present it to anyone. So he stated, he requested if he might learn it. And I stated, No, as a result of, you understand, do not humiliate me. And he stated, simply let me learn it. I’m your buddy, I’m not going to, you understand, I’ll simply offer you notes, no matter. Anyway, he learn it, and he cherished it. And he stated, It’s not the best script on the earth, however I believe you’ll be able to promote it. And I believe it is actually humorous. And I believe the brokers unsuitable. So based mostly on that, and at this level, David was nonetheless no one. But you understand, I believed, nicely, perhaps we must always attempt to hearken to anyone else. The timing was such that considered one of my UCLA professors had met an agent at a celebration, who was in search of new writers. And my professor stated, Well, I you understand, I learn a script that I believe’s humorous. And I do know these younger author and so we acquired the script to him on a Friday. Normally, it will at the moment, it will take anyplace from six weeks to 6 months for an agent to ever get again to you. Got it. Two days later, he referred to as and stated, When are you able to come residence? And we went right into a convention room and it was all of the brokers and companions and so they wished to signal us after which linked as much as Scripture. I did not there was a bidding battle. So, ethical of the story, do not ever hear to at least one particular person’s opinion. Very necessary level. And that script actually unlocked every thing for us, together with segwaying into writing for tv, as a result of Steven bochco was producing Doogie Howser MD on the time, and skim the script and likewise actually cherished it. And that was how we acquired our first TV job. So, you understand, you simply, you by no means know, you understand, it is like William Goldman says, and adventures within the display commerce, you understand, no one is aware of something. It’s at all times price getting a number of opinions. And if three folks say, that is horrible, I’m simply not connecting to something within the script, then perhaps you hear, however one particular person is rarely, you understand, I do not assume is ever, essentially the be all finish all or something. And in order that was additionally a part of that story. And I believe we thought it was actually good, then we have been disenchanted. And then swiftly, we thought it was good once more, as a result of anyone validated this, you understand, on. And it is at all times exhausting while you’re writing a script to know if it is good, since you’re too near it. You know, and I inform my college students now at UCLA, the place I educate now, you understand, the very first thing you lose while you begin writing is objectivity. And it is actually exhausting to see clearly, actually something, as a result of the characters are beginning to type of lead you round, and also you lose the sense of the massive image. And it usually takes a recent set of eyes to essentially, actually decide the standard of something at that time, until the author is ready to put the script away for a minimum of a couple of weeks and are available again to it with recent eyes.
Dave Bullis 16:46
Yeah, very, very true. Because I, you understand, I’ve been there too, Neil, the place you understand, you are writing a script, and also you that internal voice within you begins type of saying, Ah, come on, that is an excessive amount of like, you understand, the godfather or no matter. And you then begin writing a little bit extra, and you are like, I do not know, what the hell am I doing? And then by the top, you are like, This is terrible. What the hell am I doing with my life? I must exit and I simply begin a brand new passion.
Neil Landau 17:11
Yes, nicely, I used to be mentoring a lot extra. That voice that little satan or, you understand, in your shoulder, that tells you you suck, and, you understand, makes you doubt every thing. That’s by no means, that is by no means going anyplace, that is at all times going to be sitting on one shoulder, the opposite shoulder that hopefully could have your muse which can counter every thing, the unfavourable voices saying it is virtually like there’s at all times a battle between the Muse and the Furies. And I believe, you understand, it is, the unfavourable voice does have worth in that. It’s ego pushed. And it faucets into all your insecurities and doubts and fears, and neuroses. But it is usually forcing you to be extra crucial and to, you understand, be actually robust on your self, as a result of it is in all probability going to say meaner issues, and harsher issues than anyone within the enterprise probably might ever say to you. I’d moderately hear from my very own internal therapeutic from an exterior one who might doubtlessly destroy, you understand, my profession or, you understand, making a cell software. The problem is, it is virtually not possible to be the creator and the critic on the identical time, you understand, so what I attempt to do, the perfect of my skill is, say, All proper, I do know the unfavourable, harmful, or hyper crucial voice goes to be coming by one aspect of my head or sitting on considered one of my shoulders, it is there, I acknowledge it. I simply say, you understand, simply let me end. I’m gonna hear, simply to the optimistic information, that is type of inspiring me, when I’m finished, you understand, I’ll be hypercritical, and I’ll shift over to my crucial thoughts. But it is actually exhausting to be the creator and the critic concurrently. You know, it is, they type of cancel one another out. And it is What could cause author’s block, you understand, author’s block is brought on by perfectionism, the place you simply, you understand, do not need to write something, since you’re satisfied it isn’t sensible. And it is in all probability as a result of that unfavourable voice is telling you it isn’t ok, it isn’t ok, and you then cease paying, as an alternative of truly getting pages written. So I at all times inform folks, the, the antidote to author’s block may be very easy. Lower your requirements. Just write it write a shitty first draft. And then as soon as it is finished, return and make it higher. And Endor you understand, give it to a couple folks, trusted advisors to provide you recent views. Hopefully the all agree however they might not after which, you understand, return. It’s the you understand, the cliche you understand, the adage writing is rewriting is totally true.
Alex Ferrari 20:00
Soon, we’ll be proper again after a phrase from our sponsor. And now again to the present,
Neil Landau 20:09
You do not finish the expansion between that first shitty first draft, which is nearly at all times regular. And that subsequent draft is commonly the largest leap a script takes, you understand, from the primary one, that is simply, you are simply simply an exploratory draft, and also you’re simply attempting to get it down on the web page, to that subsequent one, the place you are like, Ah, okay, now I type of see what it’s or what it might be. And then hopefully, you understand, every draft, you get nearer and nearer to, you understand, realizing what it might be. And generally it surprises you, and even higher than what you initially thought. And then, when you please your self, and also you please your reps, and also you get a basic consensus that, oh, that is considered one of your finest items of labor, or this a minimum of, might promote and, and be industrial. Then, after all, you get notes from the studio, and also you get notes from the director and the actors. And, you understand, it is extra rewriting, and extra folks to please. And it does not actually ever finish till actually the films locked. You know, even in put up manufacturing, you’ll be able to nonetheless proceed to make modifications in ADR, you’ll be able to add strains, and that is a really fluid, inefficient course of. That’s very costly. And, you understand, time is cash, and everyone’s making discoveries all through the entire course of. But after all, it begins with the clean web page and nothing and I believe that is the place the author can endure essentially the most.
Dave Bullis 21:42
Yeah, it is type of like Robert McKee says the nothing strikes till the author truly writes. Meaning that, you understand, and not using a script, you truly cannot shoot something. But however I actually appreciated what you stated there, Neal about decreasing your requirements. It’s type of like courting, you understand what I imply? I believe everybody needs thus far a supermodel. But you understand, perhaps that is not likely what’s gonna occur, proper?
Neil Landau 22:04
Well, sure, I’ve for him, you understand, single for a very long time. And I’ll simply replace, you understand, how’s your love life, they will say, there isn’t any one on the market. There’s simply nobody. And I’ll and I at all times assume, nicely, there are folks on the market, it’s possible you’ll not, you understand, perhaps they do not, they don’t seem to be within the prettiest bundle, or one thing that simply matches what you assume is, you understand, your excessive commonplace, however there are a whole lot of great folks on the market. And in case you are a bit extra open to it, you may in all probability while you’re prepared, you’ll meet anyone. But it is true. I imply, generally folks like my brother even and also you knew when he met his spouse, he was satisfied she was not proper. simply bodily, however the extra you bought to know her and speaking to her, the extra stunning she turned, you understand, they have been married for a very long time. So he wasn’t a lot raring his requirements is perhaps simply being open to, you understand, not every thing single factor needs to be excellent. You know, the primary, within the first second, you understand, there is a discovery course of. So even when you usher in, you understand, UCLA, generally folks will usher in pages and say, these are horrible pages, however I simply wanted to write down one thing that is weak. And generally, the pages are actually good. And they did not even understand it. Or different instances, perhaps the pages do not work, however there’s like one jam buried in these pages that unlocks every thing that that may make the script nice. So you understand, you type of at all times need to be open to the pleased accident, that may occur. And that solely actually occurs when you get your butt within the chair and also you’re prepared to face, you understand, face that clean web page or simply reenact the scene that appears flat or, or the character that is simply not chatting with you and, you understand, takes a whole lot of braveness to write down, and a whole lot of persistence, you understand, simply to hope for inspiration. And when it isn’t there, it’s a must to learn anyway, that is, you understand, when you’re on a deadline, you can not at all times look forward to inspiration to strike. And that is, that is the hardest factor. You know, as a result of all of us need to dazzle everyone each time. But it did not actually work that method. Numerous trial and error.
Dave Bullis 24:16
Yeah. And you touched on this too, like beforehand, like, writing ought to be enjoyable. You know, like, while you’re sitting down, you are writing one thing, you understand, particularly good comedy, you understand, you understand, cuz I’ve had associates who, and it is occurred to me as nicely, we’re, you understand, they’re attempting to write down a film, a horror, comedy, no matter. And they they only type of agonize and overthink the entire thing, to the purpose the place they’re like, you understand, no, form of every thing. It’s like, I do not know when you’ve ever learn the The Art of War. The War of Art, I’m sorry, The War of Art by Steven Pressfield. Yes, do your finest to it is like that resistance is available in in that kind the place you overthink every thing. You overanalyze every thing, after which every thing stops changing into enjoyable. And it turns into simply this depressing slowdown the place every thing you understand what I imply? Wherever he was, like, Alright, I assume I’ll write us a phrase or no matter I bust sentence, paragraph. But every thing simply turns into this like arduous course of. And you are like, I do not know, if I need to write at this time, after which tomorrow, after which per week, after which swiftly, you understand, a yr has flown by, and you have not written something?
Neil Landau 25:16
Yeah. I imply, that is lengthy. You know, there are individuals who say, you understand, do not go to movie college, you’ll be able to simply learn scripts and watch films or, you understand, examine tv by studying pilots and watching reveals. And I believe these issues are true. But the factor that of program does, or two actually good writers group does is it makes you accountable. And you truly simply need to carry one thing in each week, you may have deadlines. And in some instances, the distinction between a free writers group, you understand, simply with gifted writers and associates getting collectively as soon as per week, like a e-book membership, you understand, to essentially simply workshop their pages. What some folks have stated, these do not work, folks find yourself flaking. I imply, after all, lots of them do work, however the ones that do not work, or as a result of folks type of simply begin dabbling in it does change into form of a passion that, whereas when you’re in a program, and also you’re paying cash, and going into debt is horrible that’s as a result of it is fairly horrible to owe cash, you graduate in that creative area with no assure of success and debt. But our college students, you understand, are very conscious of that. And in order that they work their butts off. And they’re very conscious that, you understand, this has an funding of their future. And they do take it very, very, very severely. And they only do not, you understand, they do not have a selection. So it is like, nicely, at this level, you are operating out of time. So simply go together with the perfect concept you may have and get a draft and you’ll at all times rewrite it later. And so I believe time and deadlines are simply the perfect reward for any author as a result of it offers you construction and you understand, a deadline is a present. I at all times say a author and not using a deadline, simply clear issues, assume you understand, you may you may have the cleanest. You’ll discover each doable excuse to not write. Having a writing accomplice actually helps with that. It’s actually helped me and Tara tremendously early in our careers, as a result of we, if one particular person did not really feel like writing, the opposite particular person would, you understand, could be the disciplinarian and say, no, no, now we have to focus. There have been instances that each of us did not need to write and we would simply go to the films or mechanic or do one thing else. Where we’d problem ourselves, if we really regarded like writing. And we had a couple of further days, we’d simply do issues like go to the mall. But we’d give ourselves sufficient time and like, now we have to go to shops and discover garments that our characters would put on. or observe folks within the mall to assist us discover, you understand, an attention-grabbing look or listen in on a dialog to you understand, get inspiration for dialogue. So every thing was at all times like every thing we did would nonetheless feed the inventive course of. It’s not the substance, it does not substitute sitting down and dealing with the web page. But it does type of guard whereas we’re, we’re nonetheless type of working. And perhaps whereas we’re out speaking or simply having strains you are attempting to keep away from writing. Invariably, we when you have a accomplice, you may begin speaking in regards to the scripts. And out of the blue, you are within the story session, and out of the blue you are jotting down notes and also you push by, you understand, one thing that perhaps you’d haven’t been in a position to do by yourself. So it additionally actually helps with comedy. Because if we’re laughing a minimum of we predict it is humorous. Or if one particular person pitches a joke or a humorous scenario and the opposite particular person laughs That’s a great barometer. It’s very exhausting to write down in a vacuum, you understand. And that is one other factor that will get folks type of caught. I do know with Dojo Mom, simply, it is simply such a vivid reminiscence. We after we determined that we needed to eliminate the useless babysitter’s physique. We, we would like you to only wait, I keep in mind this. We have been sitting at my mother’s home and your kitchen desk. And we stated what in the event that they put it within the trunk? Like if she got here with a trunk of all of our stuff? And what in the event that they drop it off on the mortuary as a result of, you understand, they do not need to bury the physique. They’re not criminals, we thought we’ll simply do the correct factor. We’ll drop it off at a mortuary. They’ll give her you understand, they will determine what to do. But then they needed to go away a notice. And after we wrote the notice that they have been going to placed on the trunk, which that good outdated woman inside died of pure causes. We simply thought that was the funniest factor on the earth. We laughed for like quarter-hour considering that was hilarious. We did not know if anyone else would assume it was lurking. Like we did it
Alex Ferrari 29:59
We’ll be proper again after a phrase from our sponsor. And now again to the present.
Neil Landau 30:10
And that and the ending of the script, which was we, after the babysitter dies, you understand, early on stack, we we wished to then have the viewers overlook that the babysitter even existed. Because I believe the explanation the scripts bought was the ending, which was after this complete ordeal of every thing that they’ve all been by, the mom comes again into city, and it seems to be like type of in that dangerous enterprise method, which was one other inspiration for us learn a very nice group comedy, a lot better than Don’t inform mother the babysitter’s useless. But on the finish of dangerous enterprise, it seems to be like he acquired away with every thing. And we wished to have that. But then we, after we define the film on to index playing cards, which was how I nonetheless define, we thought, what if the mom comes again seems to be like she acquired away with every thing. And then the mom says, Oh, another factor, we get the babysitter. And that that might be the primary time the viewers you’ve got been heard in regards to the babysitter for like, you understand, over an hour, I believe that ending actually helped to steal the script, as a result of it was shocking within the reader, overlook in regards to the babysitter additionally. And, you understand, having a very sturdy begin and a robust end actually helps, you understand, promote scripts. And these two issues by no means modified. You know, these have been like, locked, and irrespective of what number of drafts we did they keep, you understand, these have been by no means Nobody touched these. There was strain from the studio to have a police investigation, folks in search of the babysitter. And and so they wished us to continually, you understand, we thoughts the viewers in regards to the babysitter, and that was one thing we stored preventing towards saying that is gonna smash the ending. And we struck some type of a compromise. The bizarre factor in regards to the film is, is you type of talked about it. When it got here out, it did, okay, low finances. So it is made cash. It undoubtedly made cash. But it is change into increasingly more common over time. And it is now type of like a cult film, which we do not actually perceive precisely why or the way it occurred. But even this coming Monday night time in LA, there is a tribute screening to it. As a part of the UCLA archive, they’re screening, a collection referred to as working girls. And one of many films the screening is working lady, which was taking place across the identical time as dumped her mother was first bought, and dumped him on babysitter’s useless there, together with that in idea. And so, you understand, Monday night time, there’s gonna be a whole bunch of individuals watching the film and q&a. And we simply assume all issues hilarious, as a result of it has been, you understand, so a few years because the film got here out, however there’s nonetheless a ton of curiosity in it. And folks nonetheless quote, strains of dialogue from it to me, once I go to events, and I like it. It’s normally that it became this, however that we by no means anticipated.
Dave Bullis 33:02
You know, it is like there is a piece of recommendation I as soon as heard that for while you’re while you’re submitting a script, to love a gatekeeper, so to talk, a very powerful half, the what issues most is the primary 10 pages. And then when it is an precise film, a very powerful half is the final 10 minutes.
Neil Landau 33:20
Yes, yeah. I imply, when you take a look at Get out, you understand, which was, I believe you’d have received the Oscar for Best Picture. I’m glad that one for Best Screenplay, however I simply by no means knew the place that film was gone. And I I do know that they, you understand, we work the ending a number of instances, however very memorable ending. And sure, I believe the explanation I believe that is true about, you understand, the final 10 pages is that you just learn someway have an inevitable ending that the viewers ought to have seen coming. But getting in that is simply my opinion, and it needs to be shocking. You know, I believe there is a purpose why the Hades romantic comedy has type of gone out of favor. And a whole lot of that’s simply so formulaic, that the viewers was up to now forward of, you understand, the story that the one enjoyable was how they have been going to get collectively, however there was by no means a query that they’d get collectively on the finish, you understand, and so we drove actually wished, you understand, we actually wished to go, you go towards method and a whole lot of it wasn’t a lot aware, like we’re gonna go towards method. We knew we would have liked one thing that was surprising, and even romantic, my favourite romantic comedy of all time is The Philadelphia Story with Katharine Hepburn, you understand, and Jimmy Stewart and Cary Grant. And what I like about that film is there are 4 potential suitors. Well, three actually after which it narrowed down to 2, however you actually do not know on the finish. Which man she’s gonna marry till the till the ceremony is about to start out. And I like that, you understand, and all of the choices which might be out there. I additionally actually just like the anti romantic comedy. My finest buddy’s wedding ceremony with Julia Roberts as a result of she does not find yourself with the man. And you are considering she’s going to after which when, you understand, it ends in an surprising method. And I at all times, at all times shared that. And I like all Henry endings like Fight Club or the sixth sense and, you understand, films the place every thing shifts. And you did not see it coming till that second, and you then go, Oh, that is nice. Why did not they feed again in so satisfying? Those are at all times my favourite type of Ruby experiences.
Dave Bullis 35:43
There was an excellent 80s teen comedy that was kinda like about you understand, guys going after the lady referred to as the final American virgin. Have you ever seen it? Oh, yeah, after all. Yeah. That ending? Let me let you know, no, but it surely these days, when you stated I would not do this ending, you would not have the ability to get away with it. Because it might be it is such a downer ending and it ends quite a bit like actual life. And then when you however when you examine that to love, perhaps Money Can’t Buy Me Love or neither, or one thing like that, you understand, okay, we all know they’re gonna get collectively. But how they acquired collectively by the way in which, I like I like each of these films. It’s simply once I noticed the final American virgin and the and even films like with a greater off useless. I imply, stuff like that. Just completely unbelievable. I imply, and the, the simply the, the how quirky that one was, however however I’m sorry, I’m type of leaping round right here. But what much less American model? Okay. Less American model. I imply, that ending? Do you’d you thoughts if I spoiled if everyone if I simply considered what the ending is now? No. So everyone when you do not need to simply bounce forward, like 30 seconds if you do not need me to spoil it for you, however But primarily, this man, the entire film goes right here to this lady. He lastly he she will get pregnant by one other man. She so he that is just like the third act, and he sells all his stuff, like his stereo system, every thing else to assist pay for the abortion. They she might see abortion. And in a while that night time there or perhaps per week later at a home get together. And she’s with a man who principally left her. And she’s forgotten all in regards to the protagonist. It’s all he is finished for her. And it simply ends with him crying to himself in his automobile as he simply drives into the night time and the film ends. And I keep in mind No, I used to be floored by that ending as a result of I used to be like holy.
Neil Landau 37:33
Yeah, yeah. Well, you understand, I believe it is at all times a great. Often I’ll say to college students on TV pilot or film, I’ll say pitch the primary half of the film, simply the broad strokes of what you are planning, you understand, within the early levels, after which simply ask them, buddy, what do you assume’s gonna occur? And if they only go instantly to your ending? And they’re like this, as a result of that is essentially the most logical, apparent method that it will add? If they’re proper, you understand, it’s a must to change the ending. Or do it’s a must to change the trail to that ending? You know, since you need you understand, that is the definition of anticlimactic, proper? You know, the place it is like, every thing occurs precisely the way in which you thought. So even when it might be like, you understand, When Harry Met Sally, which is a good romantic comedy. You know, you type of know they’re gonna get collectively. But Nora Ephron, you understand, she pushes it to the final minutes on New Year’s Eve. And then after they do get collectively, the final strains of the film or you understand, I hate you, Harry, I actually hate you. Not I like you, Eric. I actually love you, you understand, and I additionally love I additionally respect that the place it simply appears not possible that it might occur. Like the graduate, you understand, he will get there to cease the marriage. And then it is too late. I like I imply, you understand, Mike Nichols is considered one of my favourite administrators and I like the graduate considered one of my favourite films. But you understand, nice climax, Benjamin rushed into the church, you understand, lastly, they’re screaming, you understand, you lay the girl. And then it is too late. It’s over. But it isn’t over. And you then get that even, you understand, that extremely iconic ending after they on the bus. And this type of silence performs and, you understand, the film ends with them going, alright, we truly pulled this off. She let she’s the Runaway Bride, they’re collectively. And but now what you understand, now what the hell can we do? That was additionally you understand, you folks keep in mind these endings, as a result of they’re indelible. And they’re, they’re dangerous, as a result of they don’t seem to be simply, they lived fortunately ever after. And I really feel like, you understand, perhaps it is a good segue to speaking about tv. Part of why I believe TV is the place essentially the most thrilling storytelling is going on now could be precisely for that purpose, which is, it isn’t simply fortunately ever after. It’s this ongoing, you understand, long run relationship with these characters the place we align with them by the top of the pilot I
Alex Ferrari 40:01
We’ll be proper again after a phrase from our sponsor. And now again to the present.
Neil Landau 40:10
But then it is the fluid dance, generally of allegiance, you understand, and generally we approve of what they do. And generally we do not and, and it does not, it is, it does not actually finish till the top of the collection, which is likely to be, you understand, 567, or, you understand, Grey’s Anatomy, I believe goes in 14. It’s simply continually ongoing. And so long as it retains shocking us and the characters maintain dealing with new, new issues and new challenges, it stays attention-grabbing. So it is, once more, ever actually having to totally finish the story. It’s, I like how extremely serialized tv is now and the way, you understand, nice writers and actually sturdy efficient writers rooms continually discover methods to shock us. And to pivot from what we thought was both the top of a narrative the place it has, I write about this within the new e-book, I name it story tentacle, you understand, the place you make story decisions that lead extra story, as a result of it has to maintain, it has to proceed and evolve. And films now begin to appear very finite to me, you understand, like, even actually good films. I do not assume that is it, I need to I need to hover, I need to spend extra time with these characters. And I believe with you understand, the domination of and other people shifting over to on demand viewership, the place they’ll binge view, and so they can watch issues when they need you and the way they need to and the place they need to that we love these ongoing tales that simply maintain pulling us in several instructions and problem us and the characters. And so I you may need to it’s a must to take into consideration the place you need to land on the island on the on the finish of the season. But it is an ongoing story. And one of many issues I speak about is how, you understand, a film is designed to have a starting, center and finish. A pilot is designed to have a starting, center and an open finish. You know, while you need to finish on extra questions and solutions, and also you need to go away every thing huge open for extra tales. And, you understand, studying films, it was at all times, you understand, what is the ending? How does it finish? How does it full? And that is the precise reverse of that.
Dave Bullis 42:26
Yeah, you understand, once I was working with Jennifer Dasani, as a result of I truly shot it. Yeah, I truly, yeah, Jen and Jay, I believe everybody is aware of, Jen, I truly shot a TV pilot a pair years in the past, I truly produced it wrote it directed it. And, and I it is on-line proper now, by the way in which, it is referred to as Game over. And it is simply it was like I aimed excessive. I, we had so many alternatives. It was there was a whole lot of backstage preventing. You do not I imply, there’s a whole lot of behind the stuff that was behind the scenes, as I’m positive you understand what I imply, like a whole lot of, however now we have, I ultimately acquired pushed out, I lastly determined to add it final yr, as a result of I used to be simply sitting on it. I used to be prefer it’s doing no one any good. But he is sitting on this rattling factor. So however after working with Jen, I noticed, you understand, starting you understand, have that pilot after which the pilot has to ignite the collection. So then while you go to pitch it, you may have form of like, what is the pilot arc with Season One? And when what’s what is going on to be the collection arc? So, you understand, we’re ultimately, you understand, like Walter White Breaking Bad is the perfect instance. You know, Walter White, he goes from this gentle mannered man in the course of New Mexico to a drug kingpin. Well, how does that transformation occur? Well, you understand,
Neil Landau 43:40
Mr. Chips into Scarface what Gilligan stated.
Dave Bullis 43:44
Yeah, yeah, precisely. And you form of have, you understand, how does that journey happen? And you understand, what, what occurs throughout these throughout these moments? It’s, it is a lot extra of an artwork than a science. That’s why when anybody tries to, like, you understand, what I imply? Like I generally seeing it when, like, folks, after they attempt to dissect sure issues, they virtually like go, Well, you understand, what, seven, web page 17 This beat has to occur on web page 30 This factor has to occur. You’re type of like, Oh, come on, let’s simply transfer away from me. Like, that is it? That’s too sciency fully.
Neil Landau 44:11
Yeah, I imply, I simply am so towards method. Now. There. You know, there are specific issues that there is, you understand, only a few absolutes, you understand, in screenwriting, you understand, and I at all times inform folks, if anyone tells you there is a method or a template to observe, it isn’t a foul concept simply to look and say, Okay, nicely, you might break down a whole lot of films that observe that method efficiently. And that’s legitimate, you understand, however there are such a lot of totally different constructions during which tales and notably now, when you do have a and you’ll break kind, and the story nonetheless works, all the higher, you understand, as a result of it is a mysterious course of. But you understand, there are a couple of absolutes that I believe are Ballard just about throughout the board and throughout genres. One of them, I imagine each story is a suspense story, you understand, whether or not it is a comedy or a thriller or a drama. And the reason being that, you understand, the 2 key elements to suspense, our anticipation and shock, nicely, Every story must fill the viewers with anticipation of what is going on to occur subsequent. And hopefully, while you get there, it is departing. So I’m at all times going, the place’s the suspense? You know, there isn’t any dramatic rigidity. If the scripts not working, you understand, why is not it working? Well, there isn’t any dramatic rigidity. Why is not there any dramatic rigidity? Usually, that goes again to empathy, which is the very first thing to speak about? Which is, you understand, you get that No, which is essentially the most irritating notice to get from an government or a wrap, which is, I did not actually join anyone, or improvement one who would possibly say, why ought to I care about any of those folks. And suspense solely works. When you are frightened about what is going on to occur, you understand, it’s a must to hook up with the characters. So, you understand, Breaking Bad’s an excellent instance. Because, you understand, by design, Walter White is an underdog from the very starting. And we’re frightened as a result of he is dying. And he has a spouse and he has youngsters, and he is struggling. And so you understand, you actually aligned with him changing into an antihero, as a result of it looks like the best choice based mostly on restricted choices that he has, you may have a factor within the new e-book, a quote from David Mamet, the place he talks about nice trauma is selecting not between proper and unsuitable, however between two wrongs. It’s as a result of welterweight, neither possibility is nice. You know, if he is, if he does not change into a drug seller, he is in all probability going to die and go away his household and supplied for and he is gonna really feel like a failure. He sees this as drawing upon his a ability set one thing that he has, that is actually helpful. And when he connects with, you understand, his former pupil with Jesse Pinkman, he sees this as an excellent alternative that might resolve an issue. But he is caught between two runs, as a result of whereas it would resolve one drawback, it might additionally get him killed or thrown into jail. And so chapter eight in GB, writing on demand, the brand new e-book, I’ve a quote from David Mamet, it says, an ethical determination just isn’t the selection between unsuitable and proper, that is straightforward, however between two rungs, and when you take a look at among the finest does not have a whole lot of examples, based mostly on that, quote, within the e-book, everytime you join with character caught between a rock and a tough place, you are at all times going to generate extra suspense, and possibly empathy. Because, you understand, you understand, late to, not having best decisions in entrance of us, you understand, and but, you understand, which is the, the lesser of the 2 devils in human nature is to take the trail of least resistance. So if there’s a path of least resistance, clearly the simpler, higher path. And the author in character does not take that path, you are not going to root for them, since you’re gonna assume, nicely, why did they not go down the trail that was clearly the smarter, simpler selection. But when you take away selection, and also you lure them in a scenario the place neither different is good, I simply really feel like immediately, you may have Pynchon that you just would not usually have. Another absolute for me about is I imagine that each story is a coming of age story, it doesn’t matter what the ages of the characters are, you understand, it is a maturation story, and so they someway must be taught one thing, or uncover one thing. And I believe that each one films or TV reveals are about characters who need to develop up and, and or overcome one thing that lie in an emotional void on deficit that they’ve by no means actually handled. And that is a part of the journey of the story. So I at all times need to search for progress or deletion in a personality. B, exception, being multi digicam sitcoms are the characters have a tendency to not change by design, I do not really need them to vary, as a result of we, like them caught, had no issues, however films and one hour drama, half hour drama, these are likely to have characters, a minimum of attempting to vary their circumstances. And each episode, there’s the potential to win or lose one thing. And I believe that optimistic and unfavourable rigidity generates warmth, you understand, dramatic depth and helps with suspense. So, you understand, for me, these two issues I at all times return to. I would like there to be a cathartic expertise the place characters need to face fears and both overcome them, or if it is a tragedy they will not overcome although.
Alex Ferrari 49:59
Well, The proper again after a phrase from our sponsor. And now again to the present.
Neil Landau 50:09
That they’d the potential to beat, you understand, all might have turned himself in and in the end, have been modified his methods, you understand. But he needs he turned Heisenberg. He could not, you understand, he simply got here fully hooked on that energy. And at that, you understand, it is a very lonely ending for him. You know? I do not need to, I’m positive most individuals these days however anyway, you get the thought.
Dave Bullis 50:34
Yeah, I believe I just about everybody who has in all probability listened as podcasts has seen the the breaking mattress, but it surely’s a becoming in. Yeah, it is a becoming in for him. And it type of ties in with the pilot episode, which is essential. Not solely the entire, clearly, the entire collection, however however only a pilot, as a result of what he is speaking about within the pilot about chemistry, and the way issues change, it is a it is transformation, proper, which is what the characters do. So, you understand, simply simply, you understand, remodeling themselves or perceptions. You know, like David, Matt was speaking about these two dilemmas, you understand, the dilemma of two unhealthy choices, you understand, and that is one thing bushes into is, you understand, that I believe the toughest half for lots of screenwriters, or perhaps one thing they miss is creating that empathy. Because while you while you Yeah, as a result of, you understand, it is at all times that it is at all times that query, you understand, why ought to I care about these characters? Why am I invested in these characters, they’re the, the corporate that the corporate in all probability does is the perfect is Pixar, with how they create empathy for his or her characters. And, you understand, they, they Wally is a robotic, he is made to look very form of, you understand, sheepish and, you understand, he isn’t like actually a risk. You have the up, an outdated man who’s misplaced his spouse, I believe up might be the perfect film they’ve ever finished, I believe up was at a nominal, maintain alert.
Neil Landau 51:48
I imply, I used to be sobbing, after the prologue. You know, it is simply such a gorgeous prologue, love story. And, yeah, he simply says, this gigantic void, that wants that he in all probability imagine that, that at his age won’t ever be stuffed. And then this, you understand, this clean lie. And then you may have, you understand, magic is likely one of the biggest methods to fill the void. I, there is a great documentary on HBO about Steven Spielberg’s profession, it is a retrospective. It’s simply the entire thing is simply stuffed with a lot nice, you understand, perception, and also you get to listen to Spielberg inform tales about issues that, you understand, a few of his biggest achievements have been unintended, you understand, like Jaws, to me, the perfect factor about Jaws is that you just by no means see the shark, otherwise you virtually by no means see the shark. But the strain of the shark ache there may be even larger than seeing the shark. But that was not by design. And that was as a result of they could not get the mechanical shark to really work. And it did not look good. So they needed to cover it. And then they stated, Well, how can we create potential of the shark? If we won’t present the shark, which they only could not do? Just bodily, the manufacturing wasn’t as much as, you understand, we did not have the expertise to do this in a convincing method again then. So it is like, nicely, what if there’s music that, you understand, stands for the shark, when while you hear the music scare, and, you understand, once more, these are the strongest issues in that film, which was, you understand, it was finished to unravel an issue, and it truly makes the film extra much more sensible. He has, by way of the Boyd’s, in that documentary is international Plex about how every, he didn’t start as a narrative of a boy who meets an additional stretch terrestrial et was actually Spielberg’s need to inform the story of including a Jaguar baby, as a result of his mother and father divorced when he was a child. And the void was so huge when his mother and father break up up. So his query for him was, I need to inform a narrative about how that giant void created by divorced impacts a toddler. And then he began to assume, what might probably fill that void? Because it is so infinite, particularly for a child, you understand? And then he got here up with the thought, nicely, what when you found an alien from one other planet, and we shaped a friendship. And each of them have the identical aim, which is to go residence, however in several methods, you understand, the divorce, the kid of divorce needs residence to be the way in which it was, and for the mother and father to get again collectively. And for Elliot, it is about getting again to his planet. And I simply thought that that, to me, simply speaks to the emotional core of a film. It might come from the start. And then it’s a must to determine learn how to fill it and perhaps that provides you your story. Or perhaps you may have the thought of a boy cat on the subsequent competition. And you then put you continue to at all times have to return and ask what is the emotional core of the story? What’s the emotional void? How, you understand, simply even while you’re pitching a TV present, I used to be simply speaking about this at school final week. It stated, Everybody’s pitching you want you understand, it is virtually Didn’t pit discover a solution to pitch your story in 10 minutes? It’s like a comic, you understand, it’s essential take 10. You know, that is, that is the important thing to success for rise up comedy, why did you want it, take 10 minutes. And it must just about be stuffed with materials that is fairly that you just simply know kills, proper, and you then go on the street and you retain doing all your sort 10 and also you construct a pitch, a good 10 minute pitch. But I stated, Let’s simply have a rule that a minimum of 3 times throughout these 10 minutes, it’s a must to cease and say to whoever, wherever you are pitching to. Now, let’s speak about how the how the character is feeling now, at this level within the story, you understand, and I stated in use actually sturdy phrases like, you understand, devastated in rage, you understand, betrayed, determined, you understand, sturdy phrases to convey how they’re feeling, you understand, as a result of irrespective of how good the plot is, in irrespective of how good the thought is, a pitch is just pretty much as good because the emotional connection that that reels within the viewers, you understand, they need to spend money on the characters. And I believe that is in all probability, although most individuals intellectually know that is necessary. I believe folks usually underestimate the ability of emotion in a narrative. And it is as a result of it is the hardest factor to write down and the hardest factor to convey. Lots of people simply attempt it. Well, they do not attempt however they will virtually inadvertently persist with the floor and the plot particulars as an alternative of going deeper into story. You know, Roger Ebert, the late movie critic stated, we’re not within the leisure enterprise, we’re within the empathy enterprise. And, to me, empathy is every thing in story. And it is usually the factor that is most simply ignored by the Creator. So if anyone will get something out of this, a minimum of from my perspective, take a look at the position of empathy in your story. And if there is not a transparent emotional journey, you’ve got nonetheless acquired a whole lot of work to do, you understand, you are lacking an entire layer. And it applies equally to comedy. You know, when you take a look at a film like bridesmaids in an emotional journey, it is all about feeling deserted into friendship, and feeling such as you’re by no means going to be worthy of affection. And these are common theme attics, however they’re additionally emotional, and other people can relate to them. And that is what makes the film your film the issues I used to be nominated for an Oscar, it is what ticket from you understand what, both a protracted SNL schedule a little bit bit one joke, he did do a film that had, he’d snicker nice characters, but additionally a whole lot of vehicles.
Dave Bullis 57:52
Yeah, it is type of like what I at all times really feel too is, while you’re outlining a narrative, you get, you get an concept, and also you begin type of outlining it, you type of put the cart earlier than the horse since you began saying, you understand, what would possibly occur, these plot twist these turns, blah, blah. And then characters type of again, you understand, considered afterwards, like, oh, what character might be plugged into this, when it ought to be reversed ought to be a personality on this? And what sort of character is it? You know, how am I going to create this, this form of empathy between every thing? Yeah, and at an excellent film that I at all times return to His Blood Simple on that simply has nice characters, and simply the twists and turns of of of what they’re doing to attempt to, it is virtually out of affection. You know, I believe it is the one Coen Brothers film, by the way in which, that is not about cash. I do know, you talked about about a whole lot of films are about coming of age. And I truly only in the near past, and I truly simply noticed this, this video not too long ago about, you understand, this in Atlanta evaluation of the Coen Brothers film and the way all their films are about cash, and their pursuit of cash. And, and I began to look at a little bit bit extra, and I used to be, nicely, you understand, they’ve actually is true. I do not assume blood samples about cash. I simply, I believe it is extra of about nicely, I assume it’s about cash, and it went away. But But Raising Arizona was the opposite exception, however that once more was was the newborn was about cash. Because, you understand, that complete you understand, that complete factor about kidnapping the child after which it was a bounty hunter got here again so however you understand, it is after which among the characters that greed about that reward cash. But, um, however yeah, you understand, I simply assume that character, you understand, generally is, you understand, not likely considered, and with TV, it is all about character, you understand, it is whether or not that is the TV present, Ozarks, you understand, anyone needs instructed me and we’re within the golden age of TV, which is true, but it surely’s additionally rather more segregated now. Because I, you understand, YouTube and Vudu and HBO and Showtime and all these different issues the place, you understand, now we have all these nice TV reveals, and so they’re all like 100 totally different channels.
Neil Landau 59:44
Yeah, there are literally going to be over 500 scripted reveals throughout platforms this yr. That’s, you understand, and 10s and 10s of billions developed on acquisition, manufacturing.
Alex Ferrari 59:59
We’ll be proper again after a phrase from our sponsor. And now again to the present.
Neil Landau 1:00:08
And some, you understand, I’m solely doing that a whole lot of the highest streaming platforms like Netflix and Hulu and, and premium cable channels like HBO, HBO and Showtime nonetheless develop. But Netflix does not spend quite a bit on improvement. They like folks to come back to them with initiatives which might be what they’d Ted Saran dose, you understand, when the Netflix content material piece of content material, he says they’re by no means going to purchase a venture that is half baked, you understand, they’re, they’re in search of three. And that is just about throughout the board. Now. And it is a massive change from simply even a couple of years in the past, which is, it is very uncommon, anyone’s simply going to purchase a pilot, they’re gonna need to be the pilot, they’re gonna need to learn a collection Bible, and even the mini Bible. So they know that it could maintain over a minimum of one season, they’d need extra element about season one, after which a suggestion of the place it would go in future seasons. There are platforms that need you to map out a number of seasons. A buddy of mine does have an excellent criminally with an underappreciated type of a sleeper collection for Amazon referred to as patriots, I do not know when you’ve seen it. Very folks, only a few folks have seen it. Steven Conrad, who’s finest recognized in all probability for studying the film, the pursuit of happiness with Will Smith. But he additionally wrote the weatherman with Nicolas Cage and the Life of Walter Mitty with Ben Stiller. And he is a very great, however he he created a collection for Amazon referred to as patriot. And I believe virtually no one thought it is nice. It’s a really darkish comedy. It did get picked up for season two. So they’re in manufacturing now. And couple, it was a giant one was, what was your query? Again? How did they began to get on Patriot for instance?
Dave Bullis 1:02:16
It was, we have been simply speaking about character?
Neil Landau 1:02:19
Oh, sure. Yes, sure. Walking window, on the time, overlook who had developed final when he was at ABC as a standard government, he had gone over to Amazon. And due to the final expertise the place, you understand, the collection type of did not bear a whole lot of resemblance to what they initially imagined. And a few of that was simply, the present turned so profitable that they’d stretched the story out over Maliki. But as a result of Morgan Rendell was concerned with loss, when Steven at the moment got here into self hatred, and Steven had not finished tv, they actually as a way to, for him to have made that deal, they actually wanted proof of idea. And they wished him to map out the way it might maintain over many seasons, not simply over the primary season, and even needed to show all that to them. And, you understand, now everyone needs that. Everybody needs proof of idea. Maybe a pilot episode and a second episode already written. Another factor that one other pattern is working in studios at the moment are smooth display lighting reveals the place they will first greenlight the writers room. And they will see what number of scripts can come out which might be of the identical prime quality because the pilot, however that excited them. So earlier than they decide to manufacturing, they need many scripts, and so they need to do this the writers have been on has give you a really sturdy plan for the season. That’s one other pattern that is taking place. And, after all, most of those collection Bibles are many Bibles which might be a part of the promoting course of or simply promoting instruments. Its college students, the writers room assembles. Often every thing within the Bible goes out the window, as a result of they give you higher concepts. But, you understand, so that you want the Bible. You must have the plan and have the ability to articulate it to fulfill the one that’s investing, you understand, thousands and thousands of {dollars} in the end in a manufacturing. And then a whole lot of that, you understand, will get thrown out as you make discoveries and discover your method and the character is stirred, take a lifetime of their very own and casting of the warmth. You know, a whole lot of instances on paper, it did not seem to be two characters would want to spend so much of time collectively, however you then understand that after they’re on display, the chemistry is so sturdy. Sometimes reveals like homeland decides they’ll speed up the romance. You know, like between Carrie and Brody and season one. That wasn’t purported to occur until a lot later. Warren, you understand, again to Breaking Bad Jesse Qinglin was purported to be killed off, you understand, midway by season one. But as soon as they noticed the chemistry between her and Paul, oh my god, Bryan Cranston, you understand, out of the blue that they have been like, Oh, that is the central relationship. This is just like the strongest a part of the present this week. By the way in which. Let’s not kill off Jesse Pinkman. This offers us extra story. So a whole lot of what’s taking place now could be you want a plan and also you want a imaginative and prescient, it’s essential articulate it upfront. To persuade patrons that you just even have proof of idea, some type of a bundle, perhaps even a director or showrunner connect, perhaps an actor who’s . So that, you understand, like when Netflix notoriously greenlit two full seasons of House of Cards. Some of it was based mostly on algorithms, however extra of it was based mostly on the bundle of, you understand, David Fincher and no Willamina. At the time, Kevin Spacey, which after all, now could be the kiss of loss of life. But you understand, they need to, they’re betting on a winner on a successful racehorse. And the extra you could persuade them upfront that they’ve a successful horse, the extra doubtless they’ll be to write down the intercourse. And to provide the inexperienced gentle.
Dave Bullis 1:06:26
Yeah, yeah, I believe that is what everybody’s form of, you understand, once more, like with this, tying it again, virtually like a TV present, virtually tying it again to what we have been initially speaking about, which was creating that script. In the top, that is your form of, it is your calling card, and you understand, that that is your Yeah, your skill to say, that is what I’m able to, you understand, it is exterior the field considering. And I imply, simply to take one other aspect notice, I do know, I need to additionally simply earlier than we shut, I do know we’re operating out of time once I speak about your your your new e-book, however I simply to form of put a remaining thought on all this. I’ve a you understand, once I every time I see these superhero films that come out, you understand, we at all times discuss in regards to the ending needs to be closed and also you solely imply, however like, it is at all times like, you by no means you I at all times go in there and I am going, Gee, I ponder what they’re gonna arrange subsequent. I ponder what collection they’ll arrange, Matt? Yeah. And I’m at all times like, so I’m simply I already know that, you understand, hey, this man’s not going to be beat. He’s simply they’re simply going to say, oh, yeah, we invent we invented the, the the Johnson ray that resurrected him and it is like, Come on, guys. I imply, it is simply, it is so pedantic. And it is so insulting to the viewers. To this, I get it, I actually get it. But it is that is a degree the place it is like, it doesn’t matter what occurs, there’s at all times a method somebody’s resurrected. I’m similar to, I do not know. Maybe I’m simply too I’m simply too burned out with this. I understand how comedian books work. I do know comedian books are quite a bit like novels the place they permit all these totally different, you understand, imaginations and issues to occur. Because in comics, they’ve like alternate worlds. Or, or that was, that was a, an alternate universe. Or perhaps, hey, you understand, that was somebody’s dream, or hey, this was bla bla bla bla, however Right, proper, however however like tropes now. Yeah, precisely. How the comedian books, how they have been in a position to simply clarify one thing away by saying, Hey, that was a dream. That was a psychotic episode that was or this or that, you understand, with films? Uh, you understand, I believe it simply finally ends up being like, it is a little bit like, Okay, I simply noticed Thor Ragnarok the opposite day, simply got here out on Blu ray. And I believed it was I believed it was truly hilarious i, which is what they wanted, as a result of a whole lot of these films are too brooding for me, the place everybody tries, you understand, a form of, you understand, what I imply, like, tries to be both cool, or broody. But that film was simply humorous. And I do know, I had a buddy who noticed with me who stated he did not prefer it, as a result of it was too humorous. But I stated, I believe it wants that. And then however even on the finish of Thor, there was the stinger the place they’re organising the place one other ship comes upon them, and also you’re type of like, Whoa, now who’s this? And perhaps it is who’s that that that villain? Not Darkside? Maybe historics I do not keep in mind. But yeah, it is, it is a type of villains that I do not know, there’s 10,000 of them. I noticed I noticed Justice League. And I stated, I believe I’m finished with DC films.
Neil Landau 1:09:02
I imply, they weren’t the exceptions, although. I imply, Christian, you understand, Christopher Nolan, you understand, actually reinvented the superhero film with Batman Begins in The Dark Knight and by connecting to their humanity and their flaws. So although you understand, The Dark Knight ends in a method that may be very surprising, you understand. And your Batman makes this massive sacrifice for the larger good. And, I imply, they do. superheroes do are likely to do these sorts of issues. But this was the place you have been truly ending the film with him, not a euro, however one thing the place everyone’s gonna assume that he is truly the villain in a method and get cool or Guardians of the Galaxy. You know, having the humor and type of turning the standard superhero film on its on its ear.
Alex Ferrari 1:09:54
We’ll be proper again after a phrase from our sponsor. And now again to the present.
Neil Landau 1:10:03
Black Panther it was simply nice, you understand, with actually sturdy feminine characters who have been extra badass than any of the male characters. I appreciated that the formulation are being twisted and reinvented in some instances, I believe the studios, the massive studios, which which might be primarily within the massive occasion, tentpole film franchise enterprise. In some instances, they’ll get lazy in the event that they need to, as a result of you may have an entire new era, who is not conscious that issues that you just and I’d assume are tropes, or that have been burnt out on for them, these are model new, you understand, of their considering it is thrilling. For them, they’re nonetheless in a position to squeeze new life out of, you understand, what is likely to be an older style. And however, you understand, films which might be designed to be franchises are like our, like TV pilots, as a result of they don’t seem to be designed to and are designed to be the start of a dialog in a relationship with the viewers. I like the unique, the primary Iron Man, that as a result of the method of all superhero films is, or virtually all of them is that the particular person has a twin id and that no one appears to know. Like, simply, you understand, it is it is prepared suspension of disbelief that no one’s going to understand that Bruce inexperienced Wayne is Batman, you understand, simply because his voice is a little bit totally different. And he isn’t carrying the brass. gears that out. What I cherished about Iron Man is on the very finish of the primary, he says, Well, the reality is, I’m Iron Man. And he out himself cherished that ending, I believed they only went precisely towards what each different superhero film does. And it was shocking. And it was humorous. And then they nonetheless have been in a position to set themselves up for a number of franchises, however simply otherwise. So I believe writers need to work more durable to innovate and, and twist, put put a spin on an outdated method, as a result of we’re by no means actually going to give you one thing 100% Fresh at this level. And it is very troublesome to give you one thing that no one’s ever finished. But can you set a recent spin on it? You know, that is very distinctive to the voice of the author. And I believe audiences are. That’s what’s thrilling. Most audiences now. And it is definitely essentially the most satisfying expertise for me.
Dave Bullis 1:12:30
Yeah, yeah. It’s, it is true in Iran. One was was unbelievable. And, you understand, it simply fully modified that form of that form of template that they have been going by. And I like it. Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was superior. And I additionally loved Ironman three, however then once more, it was Shane Black. So I type of I used to be a little bit biased, however, however simply simply, you understand, simply truly, you understand, I do know, we’re form of run out of time right here, Neil. But simply to form of, you understand, end off, I need to speak about your e-book actually rapidly. You know, TV writing, once more, is the largest factor proper now. Every I believe everyone assume it’s a must to have a pilot of some form in your portfolio if you are going to be a author. Yeah. And not solely in Hollywood, however you understand, even in like a YouTube episodic collection, you understand what I imply? So, you understand, what was among the impetus so that you can creating this and creating the e-book, TV writing on demand?
Neil Landau 1:13:21
Well, my final, that is my fifth e-book. And my final three books have all been about tv. So I did a e-book referred to as The TV present runners roadmap, which primarily coated broadcast TV, and I wished to have a whole lot of interviews with cylinders in there as nicely. It seems to be totally different views. So I interviewed for that e-book, I talked to Shonda Rhimes, and Vince Gilligan and David shore and, you understand, simply to type of speak about their inventive course of. And then the opposite half of these books was me and what I educate in UCLA within the MFA, screenwriting program, as a result of I run within this system. And I’ve had a whole lot of college students have discovered success. And so I might love to only type of write a e-book that talked in regards to the nuts and bolts of learn how to write a pilot, and learn how to put a collection collectively, whether or not or not it’s a drama, you understand, one hour or an hour remove after that, however once I completed that e-book, there was a lot new TV coming so many reveals, like, you understand, Mr. Robot and House of Cards, and barns is the brand new block. And I made a decision, you understand, there’s a lot greater than say now. And I used to be mendacity in mattress to having bother sleeping, and I got here up with the thought of the title TV exterior the field, which was principally going to speak about with TVs going, and I acquired up and I Googled it, and it did not exist as a title. And I believed, Okay, I’m gonna, that is gonna be the brand new e-book. And I’m gonna learn in regards to the trailblazers in what I believed was the brand new Platinum age of tv. But as I researched the e-book, I noticed it was a TV revolution. You know, like, what occurred within the music enterprise, simply taking place to the TV enterprise was fully altering every thing about it, how we eat it, how its distributed, and And now, in order that that then took me to the brand new e-book, he’d be studying on demand, which is, it is being distributed in a different way and, and made in a different way, and does not need to be written with industrial breaks and act outs and does not need to be programmed the time slots the place the viewers is, you understand, the place we’re, the community is likely to be afraid in the event that they miss a couple of episodes, they will by no means catch up. Because no one misses episodes anymore. You know, now we have the power to look at issues every time we would like, and in any order we would like. So then I simply thought, nicely, I need to write a e-book that is type of a companion to TV exterior the field that talks about how the contents being created in a different way due to this revolution that we’re in, within the TV enterprise. And so the brand new e-book talks about, you understand, Atlanta and the crown and Westworld and the brand new Fargo and Stranger Things and insecure and Ozark and the night time of, you understand, American Gods and principally the subsequent iteration of nice tv, and why the reveals are nice, and the way they’re being created in a different way due to due to how the buyer interacts with them. So for instance, as an alternative of garden order, you understand, probably the most stalwart, you understand, profitable TV reveals ever, the place there was a homicide, investigation, trial and a verdict all in 42 minutes with industrial. Now now we have this season lengthy procedural, the place it is one homicide over the course of the borehole. There have been individuals who tried to do that previously, however now that is simply type of like, every thing is slowburn, you understand, Big Little Lies and Handmaid’s Tale. And, you understand, every thing is serialized, and not too long ago was a gradual roll. And the viewers actually appreciates that. So sure, so the brand new e-book principally, is extra for content material creators and writers. But there’s additionally evaluation of a whole lot of these nice reveals which might be very popular proper now. And what makes them work and the way they have an inclination to suit into the brand new TV panorama. So I, when you give individuals who learn the e-book, they will see there’s chapters on dystopias and magic realism and portals and comedies that do not have to be comedy or drama. And, you understand, simply type of how every thing’s shifting and transferring away from Formula and transferring towards slowburn serialized content material that takes us locations we’re not anticipating, as a result of there’s the time to go deeper and to discover arcs over time.
Dave Bullis 1:17:31
And everyone I’m with focal press, we’re truly going to provide away a replica of this e-book, which is to be studying on demand by Neil, we’re truly gonna give away a replica without cost. So if if you wish to learn tweet, by the way in which, so this is the way it’s gonna work. It’s gonna retweet. Not solely this the episode, but additionally remark what you’ve got discovered, throughout listening to this episode, you’ll get a free copy of the e-book, when you’re contained in the US, you’ll get a selection between a PDF or exhausting copy of the e-book. If you are exterior the US, you’ll be able to nonetheless take part. But I can provided that you win, I can solely offer you a PDF. So I’ll hyperlink to Neil’s e-book within the present notes. So once more, simply to enter, it’s a must to retweet the episode and likewise talked about what you’ve got discovered from listening this episode between Neil and I, as we have gone by this by all about writing and every thing else. And it is a actually nice e-book, by the way in which, I’m going to hyperlink to that within the present notes, everyone, it is TV writing on demand. And Neil, I’ve simply been going by going by all of the totally different chapters you may have right here, nearly all of the various things which have happening within the TV and all of the examples and stuff like that. And I’m beginning to understand, you understand, there’s so many alternative TV reveals, you begin to keep in mind, like Jesus, all these TV reveals are taking place on the identical actual time. It’s unbelievable.
Neil Landau 1:18:47
It is not the query I get essentially the most is how do you probably sustain with all content material? And the reply is, it is actually exhausting to remain up very late. And I learn a whole lot of scripts, and I watch a whole lot of goals. And that is my you. This is what I focus on now. And I like I’ve at all times cherished tv, I’ve at all times escaped into tv, simply from the time I used to be a child. And I’ve by no means seen that higher time. I imply, I you understand, that is simply the simply most enjoyable to him and tv. Both it for viewers. And when you’re a content material creator or author, there’s by no means been a greater time to interrupt into tv. There’s an enormous demand. And it is nonetheless cutthroat and very aggressive. But there may be alternative and other people must fill. You know, there’s simply in a giant urge for food proper now. So I encourage folks to write down stuff that is genuine, that solely they’ll write. And in all probability the very last thing I can go away you with is when you’re gonna create a pilot for a present or a screenplay, the three most necessary inquiries to ask your self are why this concept why you as the author and why now For this venture, if you do not have good, compelling solutions to these questions, I believe it’s essential dig deeper into your inventive course of and what what would you like your work to signify about you? Deeper, you understand, as a result of simply writing a narrative that you just you are not linked to that you just assume would possibly promote is not sufficient anymore. It has to go deeper. And there may be the non-public story the place the story that is rooted in authenticity is what everyone is in search of.
Dave Bullis 1:20:34
And, Neil, I believe that is a good way to form of put a interval on this complete dialog. So Neil phrase, we’ll discover you Where can folks discover you on-line?
Neil Landau 1:20:43
Either Neillandau.com, Facebook, or UCLA, you understand, however Neil lynda.com offers you no contact info.
Dave Bullis 1:20:54
Neil Landau I need to say thanks a lot for approaching.
Neil Landau 1:20:58
Thanks for having me. Appreciate it and have a great weekend.
Leave a Reply